Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario

Robert Carillio (darterman-in-cboss.com)
Tue, 8 Aug 2006 00:24:45 -0700

Well, for those who don't listen, who have had plenty of time to get their
act together, it would it only stand to reason why some may call them
ignorant. I cannot think of putting that any more politely. We're "told what
to do" all the time. It's democracy, not anarchy, and with that there are
rules/laws that some may deem as 'telling us what to do" Why blame failure
of this kind of plan on "environmentalists" Moreover, why label people as
"environmentalists" as it's some kind of bad thing. Without them, you would
not have had most of the health and safety standards we have today, and all
the beautiful places we have set aside for future generations to enjoy.
Change has never come from the top down. Those who work in soil and water
here have proposed exactly what you are saying. Were they wrong for sharing
their knowledge with farmers in that they 'told' them of a better way to do
things which would have a long term better impact on their land not eroding
into the stream? Sometimes no matter what approach is taken to get
cooperation in land conservation, some just don't take to it at all.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Crail, Todd" <tcrail-in-UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario

> That's because environmentalists need to learn to QUIT TELLING PEOPLE WHAT
> TO
> DO and that they're IGNORANT IF THEY DON'T LISTEN.
>
> I can't put that any more politely.
>
> Todd
> The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
> It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
> http://www.farmertodd.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org on behalf of Robert Carillio
> Sent: Tue 8/8/2006 12:57 AM
> To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
>
>
>
> Todd.. this is a good idea. Our soil and water proposed this and showed
> how
> the farms could benefit, but instead of listening to reason, they 'got out
> the shotguns' and were worried about their property rights. I guess some
> people like to remain ignorant.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd D. Crail" <tcrail-in-UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
>
>
>> Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.
>>
>> Spend the money on getting riparian setbacks issued so developers can't
>> encroach. Spend the money to get people with large tracts of undistrubed
>> land rewarded with tax abatements to encourage them to sign on to keep
>> the
>> land out of production in perpetuity. Spend the money getting ag land
>> within
>> 300 meters of the 30 year flood plain put into retirement.
>>
>> Riparian easements typically _start_ at 100 meters. Grass buffer strips
>> at
>> 30 meters at intersection with the 1st order stream, and 10 meters
>> through
>> the course of the field. Part of the agreement is to not take it out of
>> Ag
>> production ever, if at all, to keep the encroachment of impervious
>> surfaces
>> away and build cooridoors that benefit terrestrial fauna as well.
>>
>> Etc etc etc... As opposed to putting species in glass boxes and calling
>> it
>> "conservation".
>>
>> Todd
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robert Carillio" <darterman-in-cboss.com>
>> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 2:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Help! Redside Dace Recovery in Ontario
>>
>>
>>> Part of Todd's comment...
>>>
>>> "Habitat degredation is the problem everywhere, for most all species in
>>> decline... Why not spend the bucks on the habitats that HAVEN'T been
>>> degraded, to protect them?"
>>>
>>> This is true Todd, but at the same time, can we expect the undegraded
>> areas
>>> to stay their perfect little piece of paradise, if they become
>>> surrounded
>> by
>>> degraded area? The way Ohio is being sprawled upon because of outdated
>> home
>>> rule laws that perhaps never really took into account development to the
>>> current magnitude, what high quality areas we have risk being threatened
>> by
>>> what is surrounding them. These green protected areas are becoming small
>>> islands amidst being surrounded by concrete. Conservation really needs
>>> to
>>> address both..high quality areas, and the buffers that surround them.
>>>
>>> Rob C.
>>> Mahining River Drainage
>>> Ohio, N. A.
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