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From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org on behalf of Dave Neely
The geographic
breaks between these taxa are discrete, abrupt, and stunning - maybe if
you're a myopic color-blind human and can't distinguish between green,
black, and orange you might have a problem, but the fish seem to sort
themselves out just fine.
But Dave, are the fish really sorting anything out... Or an extremely =
cynical view... are we just creating more arbitrary lines so we can stay =
in the lab, continue publishing and call ourselves successful, without =
having once gone outside? <evil_grin>
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Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, with zero intention to =
ruffle feathers. But really, what is a species these days? And has =
anyone made any kind of attempt-in-_breeding_ out across these clades to =
test if the geography holds up within the classic or even current =
definition of "species" after their revisionist descriptions are =
published? Would it be a real bugger if someone happened to collect =
both, randomly mix them, and then have the good Mr. Muller breed them =
out to F2's or F3's?
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I find it really hard to hold that there aren't "intergrades" or zero =
interaction in a single watershed inbetwix Ulocentrids (thus creating =
two separate species), no matter how different the geology is where =
they're found. Nor am I just ready to just drop it after pulling my =
hair out over Catonotus, which should have been pretty straight forward =
:) =20
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I mean really, I spent three days last week standing somewhere in =
between the edge of the basin, on the barrens, and-in-the base of the =
rim, and I'm not really sure where these "species" start and end, let =
alone where the physiogeography of these _streams_ starts and ends. I =
would like to think I'm pretty perceptive-in-these kinds of things (and =
I even knew where I was at! Like someone could do this out of a jar!), =
but I couldn't say for sure where one was and where another wasn't. I =
think it's fine that people are using genetics to attempt to describe =
these boundaries, but I'm still not sold on the whole idea, especially =
as the cast of characters emerges, and I get to note their field habits =
(or lack of, if you know what I mean ;)
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So perhaps you (or anyone) could shed some light on this Ulocentra =
question (since it is so clear), using the Duck River clade as an =
example? It sounds like we have simoterum - simoterum cf. - duryi, =
maybe more?
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How does this work?
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Okay... Back to learning "Marsh, swamp, fen, bog... All pretty much the =
same thing." =20
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Aiye aiye aiye. I wish people would make up their mind if they're gonna =
lump or split lol. =20
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Thanks! :)
Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
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