RE: NANFA-L-- Fish Kill- Anyone have any ideas?

Nick Zarlinga (njz-in-clevelandmetroparks.com)
Mon, 16 May 2005 12:34:40 -0400

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What about aeration in the tank. The spraybar is underwater, I assume, so
there is no surface agitation? You said that this happened-in-night and you
found dead and dying fish in the morning?

Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org [owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org]On Behalf Of
Jeff Grabarkiewicz
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:25 PM
To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Fish Kill- Anyone have any ideas?

My general "care regime" includes 20-35% water changes every couple of
weeks. I use tapwater for water changes, and treat it with a
dechlorinator/aminator and heavy metal removal solution. I've never had
problems with this, and I have kept fish for years. That is not to say that
something could not have been screwy that day. I understand that fish are
much more sensitive to heavy metals, especially things like copper which are
not regulated to the point of metals like lead. I do have sandbed, and
maintain live plants (val). I don't do the Crail heavy feeding as Nick
mentioned..I do not keep hog suckers so there is really no need for it. I
generally feed with a mixture of mysis shrimp, bloodworms, brine shrimp.
And stick to the only what they consume in about 3 minute rule. Feed about
5 times a week. All my fish were robust and prospering, until...

I filter with a 50 gal outside power filter, and a small cheapy cannister
filter inside. And have large powerhead/spray bar setup to get a nice riffle
feel.

To my knowledge no foreign substances (cleaners, etc) have been used in
the vicinity of the tank.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Jeff

James Smith <jbosmith-in-gmail.com> wrote:
Until you figure out what caused the problem, do large, frequent
(daily or more) water changes, and add carbon to your filters. Make
sure you keep the carbon fresh and it'll remove an amazing array of
bad things from your water from excess chlorine to lysol.

While it's hard to diagnose the problem without knowing more about
your fish care regime, such as how often and how much water you
change, how you treat it, etc, I would lean towards something in the
water instead of a bacterial thing, just because the fish you put in
the bucket got better right off.

How do you treat the water you put in your tank? I've known people who
just let the water age in buckets to let the chlorine evaporate and
lost their fish when the water company changed to chloramines. I
advise people to always treat for chloramines no matter which they
have, jus! t to be safe. In my opinion, Prime by Seachem is one of the
best products on the market for getting your water ready. It removes
chlorines and chloramines, bonds ammonia and heavy metals, and in a
pinch can be used-in-high doses to remove nitrites. I avoided it for a
while because it smells strongly of sulfer which I didn't like, but
then a heavy metal spike killed off a couple hundred apple snails...
that smelled much worse!

If it were stray voltage, which I don't think it is, you can easily
eliminate it by putting a ground probe in the tank and grounding it
right to a water pipe or your home electrical system.

Is there anything close to the tank that may have gotten in? I had a
friend who kept her tanks of prized guppy males in her bedroom,
sprayed the air with an air freshener thing, and that was the end of
their prize winning. Using cleaners to clean the glass of your tank
can cause a similar problem.

It would help a lot ! if you could let us know how you keep your tank,
what you feed, how often, info on water changes, what you add, etc.

Thanks,
Jim

On 5/15/05, Jeff Grabarkiewicz wrote:
> Hello all:
>
> This past day, my 40-gallon tank underwent a massive fish kill. I lost
just
> about everything, except those I managed to put into a bucket before t
hey
> were spent. I've had this tank up for about 1 year, and have had very
few
> mortalities. It was a major bummer since the community was a result of
> collecting in 6 states.
>
> When trying to diagnose the problem, I'm really-in-a loss. The water
> chemistry was fine. The tank has heated up slightly due to the
changing
> weather and heat kicked out by my dehumidifier in the basement,
however, it
> never did reach over 72 degrees. I had added a 2nd outside power
filter
> about three days ago, so the thought was stray vol! tage might have
been an
> issue...however, I shut everything down and didn't see any
> recovery...Perhaps they were too far gone-in-the point. I had also
added
> three, what appeared to be healthy fish on Sunday.
>
> Could this be some type of bacterial issue? I didn't see any outward
signs,
> and the coordinated death makes me think no. I lost probably 20 fish
last
> night alone. In addition, the 10 or so fish that I salvaged and
transferred
> to a bucket look OK today. I should mention that the bucket was filled
with
> slightly aged tap water, not tank water. All these things again make
me
> think possibly stray voltage...or some type of poisoning.
>
> The fishes symptoms were very heavy breathing and loss of equilibrium.
.
>
> Any ideas or input?
>
> Bummed out in Michigan,
>
> Jeff
>
> ________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
&g! t; Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>
>
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about
NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">

What about aeration in the tank.  The = spraybar is=20 underwater, I assume, so there is no surface agitation?  You said = that this=20 happened-in-night and you found dead and dying fish in the = morning? =20
 

Nick Zarlinga =
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo =
216.661.6500 ext 4485

-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org=20 On Behalf Of Jeff=20 Grabarkiewicz
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:25 = PM
To:=20 nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Fish Kill- Anyone = have any=20 ideas?

My general "care regime" includes 20-35% water changes every = couple of=20 weeks.  I use tapwater for water changes, = and treat it=20 with a dechlorinator/aminator and heavy metal removal solution.  = I've=20 never had problems with this, and I have kept fish for = years.  That=20 is not to say that something could not have been screwy that = day.  I=20 understand that fish are much more sensitive to heavy metals, = especially=20 things like copper which are not regulated to the point of metals like = lead.  I do have sandbed, and maintain live plants (val).  I = don't=20 do the Crail heavy feeding as Nick mentioned..I do not keep hog = suckers=20 so there is really no need for it.  I generally feed with a = mixture of=20 mysis shrimp, bloodworms, brine shrimp.  And stick to the only = what they=20 consume in about 3 minute rule.  Feed about 5 times a week.  = All my=20 fish were robust and prospering, until...
 
I filter with a 50 gal outside power filter, and a small cheapy = cannister=20 filter inside. And have large powerhead/spray bar setup to get a nice = riffle=20 feel.
 
To my knowledge no foreign substances (cleaners, etc) have been = used in=20 the vicinity of the tank.
 
Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
 
Jeff

James Smith <jbosmith-in-gmail.com>=20 wrote:
Until=20 you figure out what caused the problem, do large, frequent
(daily = or=20 more) water changes, and add carbon to your filters. Make
sure = you keep=20 the carbon fresh and it'll remove an amazing array of
bad things = from=20 your water from excess chlorine to lysol.

While it's hard to = diagnose=20 the problem without knowing more about
your fish care regime, = such as how=20 often and how much water you
change, how you treat it, etc, I = would lean=20 towards something in the
water instead of a bacterial thing, just = because=20 the fish you put in
the bucket got better right off.

How = do you=20 treat the water you put in your tank? I've known people who
just = let the=20 water age in buckets to let the chlorine evaporate and
lost their = fish=20 when the water company changed to chloramines. I
advise people to = always=20 treat for chloramines no matter which they
have, jus! t to be = safe. In my=20 opinion, Prime by Seachem is one of the
best products on the = market for=20 getting your water ready. It removes
chlorines and chloramines, = bonds=20 ammonia and heavy metals, and in a
pinch can be used-in-high = doses to=20 remove nitrites. I avoided it for a
while because it smells = strongly of=20 sulfer which I didn't like, but
then a heavy metal spike killed = off a=20 couple hundred apple snails...
that smelled much worse!

If = it were=20 stray voltage, which I don't think it is, you can = easily
eliminate it by=20 putting a ground probe in the tank and grounding it
right to a = water pipe=20 or your home electrical system.

Is there anything close to = the tank=20 that may have gotten in? I had a
friend who kept her tanks of = prized=20 guppy males in her bedroom,
sprayed the air with an air freshener = thing,=20 and that was the end of
their prize winning. Using cleaners to = clean the=20 glass of your tank
can cause a similar problem.

It would = help a=20 lot ! if you could let us know how you keep your tank,
what you = feed, how=20 often, info on water changes, what you add,=20 etc.

Thanks,
Jim

On 5/15/05, Jeff Grabarkiewicz=20 wrote:
> Hello all:
> =
>=20 This past day, my 40-gallon tank underwent a massive fish kill. I = lost=20 just
> about everything, except those I managed to put into a = bucket=20 before they
> were spent. I've had this tank up for about 1 = year, and=20 have had very few
> mortalities. It was a major bummer since = the=20 community was a result of
> collecting in 6 states.
> =
>=20 When trying to diagnose the problem, I'm really-in-a loss. The = water
>=20 chemistry was fine. The tank has heated up slightly due to the=20 changing
> weather and heat kicked out by my dehumidifier in = the=20 basement, however, it
> never did reach over 72 degrees. I had = added a=20 2nd outside power filter
> about three days ago, so the = thought was=20 stray vol! tage might have been an
> issue...however, I shut=20 everything down and didn't see any
> recovery...Perhaps they = were too=20 far gone-in-the point. I had also added
> three, what appeared = to be=20 healthy fish on Sunday.
>
> Could this be some type of = bacterial issue? I didn't see any outward signs,
> and the = coordinated=20 death makes me think no. I lost probably 20 fish last
> night = alone.=20 In addition, the 10 or so fish that I salvaged and = transferred
> to a=20 bucket look OK today. I should mention that the bucket was filled=20 with
> slightly aged tap water, not tank water. All these = things again=20 make me
> think possibly stray voltage...or some type of = poisoning.=20
>
> The fishes symptoms were very heavy breathing and = loss of=20 equilibrium. .
>
> Any ideas or input?
> =
>=20 Bummed out in Michigan,
>
> Jeff
>
>=20 ________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
&g! = t; Yahoo!=20 Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
>=20 =
>
/------------------------------------------------------------= -----------
/=20 This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
/ = Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not = necessarily
/=20 reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about=20 NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to = nanfa-l=20 are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/=20 http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or = get
/=20 help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at
/=20 http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml

__________________________________________________
Do You=20 Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection = around=20
http://mail.yahoo.com

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C55A13.A2A18520-- /----------------------------------------------------------------------- / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes / Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA, / visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are / consistent with the guidelines as per / http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get / help, visit the NANFA email list home page and archive at / http://www.nanfa.org/email.shtml