Steffen
> Von: "Harry Knaub" <harryknaub_at_suscom.net>
> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Datum: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:38:19 -0500
> An: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Betreff: Re: NANFA-- (hellbenders plus!)
>
> It may be a minor distinction, but I would think that those numbers indicate
> a harvestor rather than a collector. I think of a collector as someone who
> collects a "reasonable" number of any given species. Either for breeding
> purposes, preservation for scientific research, or, as in my case, just to
> grow them out in an aquarium in order to oberserve their behavior for my own
> pleasure. I doubt that this person has kept all 9000 for himself. He
> probably sold them or since they are rattlesnakes more likly just killed
> them. This person is a harvester of a natural resource.Whether legal or
> illegal, this type of just help yourself to as much as you can take behavior
> is selfish and ignorant. Does't matter if it's rattlesnakes or buffalo.
> Just my opinion
>
> Harry Knaub
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Scott.L.Schlueter_at_LRB01.usace.army.mil>
> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 1:01 PM
> Subject: RE: NANFA-- (hellbenders plus!)
>
>
>> Just another note to the non-fish related discussion. There were some
>> comments made on questioning if credible evidence exists of a collector
>> impacting a NA species. Well here in NY, timber rattlesnakes are listed
> as
>> threatened. There was one individual collector that has made a severe and
>> measureable impact. Estimates have been made that he has collected 4000
>> snakes, he admitted that numbers were more to the tune of 9000 snakes.
> The
>> NYSDEC has estimated that this individual alone accounted for a 60%
>> reduction in timber rattlesnakes in NY. I am not sure what you would
> argue
>> is "credible" evidence? I am sure, no matter how conservative your
>> estimates, this individual's behavior has without a doubt lead to
>> measureable declines.
>>
>> Just thought I would throw that out there as an example.
>> Scott
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: archimedes_at_bayspringstel.net
>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:42 PM
>> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Columbia trip gear (hellbenders plus!)
>>
>>
>> Quoting Bruce Stallsmith <fundulus_at_hotmail.com>:
>>
>> I understand erring on the side of caution - I really do. But nowadays
>> everbody
>> is raising all kinds of alarms with nothing to back it up, or else they
>> produce
>> junk "science" to justify their claims. I have not seen any credible
>> evidence
>> that NA naturalists are contibuting to the decline of any NA animal by
>> "collecting" them. I still believe that if this were a _legitimate_
>> concern,
>> then the majority of professional zoologists would consider it a point of
>> honor
>> never to harvest wild animals for their own various studies of imperiled
>> species.
>>
>> This is simply another version of the points I debated in A/C with Gene
>> Helfman,
>> and I have yet to see an effective counterargument. I was kind of hoping
>> somebody would take a stab at it :-) If one can avoid protraying me as a
>> whining, rationalizing idiot, that is.
>>
>>> The harm is imperfect knowledge that they may be common, the other side
> of
>>
>>> the coin. We all know things change quickly in many areas, and this is a
>>> species with very specific habitat needs. Today's G4-G5 in many areas
> may
>> be
>> --
>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>> / Association"
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>> Association
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> http://www.nanfa.org
> --
>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>> / Association"
>> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
> Association
>> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
>> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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>> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
> http://www.nanfa.org
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org