Shane
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Zarlinga
To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
Sent: 1/21/2004 7:06 PM
Subject: RE: NANFA-- a lil' help from my friends....
You had me understanding and agreeing with you all the way to the very
end
with the graph thing . A bit above my head. Anyhow, that data point
number
three was incorrect on my part. It should be 600lbs and a reading of
1.5
ppt.
The means that 600lbs is 272,400 grams divided by 1.5 g/l (or ppt)=
181,600
liters divided by 3.785 liters in gallon =47,979 gallons
Also, in your data point number 1 for 200lbs of NaCl, you are using .6
ppt.
You did'nt subtract the .1 from the start. If we used .5ppt instead,
then
we get: 200lbs is 90,800 grams divided by .5 g/l (or ppt)=
181,600liters
divided by 3.785 liters in gallon =47,979 gallons
The interesting point is that a simple .1 ppt error can change the
gallonage
from 47,979 gallons to 39,982 gallons or 7,997 gallons! Holy cow, that
is a
bit "rough" all right. That is why I was hoping to use conductivity in
the
calculations since they are a bit more accurate. I am not sure if it
can be
done, however.
Here are the tallies:
200lbs .6ppt 47,979 gallons
400lbs 1.1ppt 43,617 gallons
600lbs 1.5ppt 47,979 gallons
800lbs 2.2ppt 43,617 gallons
How does 45,000 gallons sound?
Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> On Behalf
><)> Of Shane Graber
><)> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 4:34 PM
><)> To: 'nanfa_at_aquaria.net'
><)> Subject: RE: NANFA-- a lil' help from my friends....
><)>
><)>
><)> Yes, I'm off by 3 decimal places. It should be
><)> 44,500 gallons. :P
><)>
><)> Shane
><)>
><)> > -----Original Message-----
><)> > From: Nick Zarlinga
><)> > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:18 PM
><)> > To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > Subject: RE: NANFA-- a lil' help from my friends....
><)> >
><)> >
><)> > Ok, I have yet to go over your calculations,
><)> however 44 +
><)> > million gallons is
><)> > is the size of a lake! That would surley make
><)> it the largest
><)> > aquarium in
><)> > the world-several times over!!!!
><)> >
><)> > I think there has to be a decimal problem here.
><)> >
><)> > Nick Zarlinga
><)> > Aquarium Biologist
><)> > Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
><)> > 216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> >
><)> >
><)> > ><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> > ><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > ><)> On Behalf
><)> > ><)> Of Shane Graber
><)> > ><)> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:55 PM
><)> > ><)> To: 'nanfa_at_aquaria.net'
><)> > ><)> Subject: RE: NANFA-- a lil' help
><)> from my friends....
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> If you know how much salt you added
><)> and what the
><)> > ><)> resulting salinity is in
><)> > ><)> ppt, you should be able to do a
><)> simple calculation
><)> > ><)> to figure it out.
><)> > ><)> Salinity in ppt is nothing more
><)> than grams of salt
><)> > ><)> per liter of water so if
><)> > ><)> you know that you added X grams of
><)> salt to an
><)> > ><)> unknown volume of water and
><)> > ><)> got a resulting salinity (ppt), a simple
><)> > ><)> calculation should tell you the
><)> > ><)> answer.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> grams NaCl
><)> > ><)> ---------- x 10^3 = ppt
><)> > ><)> Liter
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> 800 lbs NaCl = 362873.9 grams.
><)> Resulted in a
><)> > ><)> salinity of 2.2 ppt.
><)> > ><)> 600 lbs NaCl = 272155.4 grams.
><)> Resulted in a
><)> > ><)> salinity of 1.2 ppt.
><)> > ><)> 400 lbs NaCl = 181436.9 grams.
><)> Resulted in a
><)> > ><)> salinity of 1.1 ppt.
><)> > ><)> 200 lbs NaCl = 90718.47 grams.
><)> Resulted in a
><)> > ><)> salinity of 0.6 ppt.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> The input water was 0.1 ppt so
><)> subtract 0.1 from
><)> > ><)> all salinity values to
><)> > ><)> adjust for the raw water (see below).
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Solve for liters and convert to gallons:
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> # liters = (grams NaCl x 10^3)/ppt
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> _at_ 800 lbs:
><)> > ><)> # liters = (362873.9 grams NaCl x
><)> 10^3)/2.1 ppt =
><)> > ><)> 172,754,238 L
><)> > ><)> # gallons = # liters / 3.785412 gal/L =
><)> > 45,636,839 gallons
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> _at_ 600 lbs:
><)> > ><)> # liters = (272155.4 grams NaCl x
><)> 10^3)/1.1 ppt =
><)> > ><)> 247,414,000 L
><)> > ><)> # gallons = # liters / 3.785412 gal/L =
><)> > 65,359,860 gallons
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> _at_ 400 lbs:
><)> > ><)> # liters = (181436.9 grams NaCl x
><)> 10^3)/1.0 ppt =
><)> > ><)> 181,436,900 L
><)> > ><)> # gallons = # liters / 3.785412 gal/L =
><)> > 47,930,555 gallons
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> _at_ 200 lbs:
><)> > ><)> # liters = (90718.47 grams NaCl x
><)> 10^3)/0.6 ppt =
><)> > ><)> 151,197,450 L
><)> > ><)> # gallons = # liters / 3.785412 gal/L =
><)> > 39,942,138 gallons
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I believe that your salinity and
><)> conductivity
><)> > ><)> reading that you took after
><)> > ><)> you had added 600 lbs salt to the
><)> tank is off so
><)> > ><)> omit that reading and find
><)> > ><)> an average of your gallons. I base
><)> the omission
><)> > ><)> on drawing a Salinity (ppt)
><)> > ><)> chart vs Conductivity (ms). If that 600 lb
><)> > ><)> reading is omitted the R^2
><)> > ><)> result of that graph is 0.9993.
><)> With it, it's 0.9471.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I'd say your display tank is about
><)> 44,500,000
><)> > ><)> gallons. If I'm right (and
><)> > ><)> I'm pretty sure I am), that's a
><)> friggin HUGE tank!
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Shane
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> > -----Original Message-----
><)> > ><)> > From: Nick Zarlinga
><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:24 AM
><)> > ><)> > To: Aquatic Information Listserve
><)> (E-mail);
><)> > ><)> NANFA List Server (E-mail)
><)> > ><)> > Subject: NANFA-- a lil' help from
><)> my friends....
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Ok, time to put the brain in gear
><)> ;) We have
><)> > an outdoor
><)> > ><)> > exhibit that we
><)> > ><)> > need to find the volume of. It
><)> is a "naturally"
><)> > ><)> shaped exhibit with a
><)> > ><)> > textured concrete bottom and a
><)> deceivingly large
><)> > ><)> "volcano
><)> > ><)> > like" planter in
><)> > ><)> > the middle. We need to find the
><)> gallonage to be
><)> > ><)> able to dose
><)> > ><)> > medications.
><)> > ><)> > In October, we had the system drained for
><)> > ><)> repairs and so we
><)> > ><)> > thought we would
><)> > ><)> > be smart and put a flow meter on
><)> the system to
><)> > ><)> fill it. Actually, we
><)> > ><)> > thought we would go one better
><)> and put two flow
><)> > ><)> meters in
><)> > ><)> > line so that we
><)> > ><)> > had a backup to verify our results. Well,
><)> > ><)> unfortunately, the two flow
><)> > ><)> > meters read vastly different
><)> amounts. So now we
><)> > ><)> are back to
><)> > ><)> > square one.
><)> > ><)> > What we decided to do was to go
><)> the back door
><)> > ><)> route. By
><)> > ><)> > adding NaCl to the
><)> > ><)> > system, we figure that we can
><)> measure conductivity and
><)> > ><)> > extrapolate from
><)> > ><)> > there. So, here is the data.
><)> Have at it, if you
><)> > ><)> wouldn't mind.
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Measurements were taken with YSI
><)> 30 conductivity
><)> > ><)> meter which
><)> > ><)> > was on the
><)> > ><)> > temperature compensated mode.
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Day 0 conductivity 268
><)> microsiemens (.1 ppt)
><)> > ><)> at 37F
><)> > ><)> > added 200 lbs of NaCl
><)> > ><)> > Day 1 conductivity 1130
><)> microsiemens (.6
><)> > ><)> ppt) at 37F
><)> > ><)> > added 200 lbs of NaCl
><)> > ><)> > Day 2 conductivity 2080
><)> microsiemens (1.1
><)> > ><)> ppt) at 36F
><)> > ><)> > added 200 lbs of NaCl
><)> > ><)> > Day 3 conductivity 3075
><)> microsiemens (1.2
><)> > ><)> ppt) at 36F
><)> > ><)> > added 200 lbs of NaCl
><)> > ><)> > Day 4 conductivity 4160
><)> microsiemens (2.2
><)> > ><)> ppt) at 36F
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Here are some other values that I tested:
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > 1 lb of NaCl in 1 gallon of tap
><)> water (257
><)> > microsiemens)
><)> > ><)> > raised conductivity
><)> > ><)> > to 140 millisiemens
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > 10 grams of NaCl in 1000 ml of
><)> Distilled water raised
><)> > ><)> > conductivity to 17
><)> > ><)> > millisiemens (9.9 ppt)
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > 1 gram of NaCl in 1000ml of
><)> Distilled water raised
><)> > ><)> > conductivity to 2174
><)> > ><)> > microsiemens (1.1 ppt)
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > As you can see from these known
><)> values that it
><)> > ><)> certainly was
><)> > ><)> > not lab quality
><)> > ><)> > measurements. But, for our
><)> purposes, a close
><)> > ><)> figure would be
><)> > ><)> > very helpful to
><)> > ><)> > us. Thanks for the help.
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Oh, and also, you don't get a
><)> grade unless you
><)> > ><)> show your work ;)
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> >
><)> > ><)> > Nick Zarlinga
><)> > ><)> > Aquarium Biologist
><)> > ><)> > Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
><)> > ><)> > 216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> > ><)> > ----------------
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