What I am going to do is set up a dedicated 20 gallon (or two) for
quarantine in the stand of this new 100 gallon someone is giving to me <wink
wink> for such occassions as this. And have the dewormer meds on hand...
It would have been nice to have them available when I first noticed his
issues right after capture. He came from a pretty high stress environment,
DNR sport fish factory dam effluent (pretty ugly), so it wouldn't have
suprised me if his ability to fight _anything_ off was severely compromised
even before I threw him in a bucket and drug him home to tank life.
Did I say I was getting a free 100 gallon? 72x18x18 of yummy goodness. Can
you say BIG ROCK RIFFLE? E. variatum you will be sought out! :)
And it's going to be horribly tempting to use the ol' 175w halides and do
emmergents and stuff. Oh my! I'm getting..... verklempt. It's just so...
beautiful... talkamongstyourselves <sniff>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
> You might have to hit him with a combination of drugs. Metrinidazole
works
> on protozoans and obviously your dog's dewormer is for worms- a broad
> subject in itself. It depends on what type of wormer you have for your
dog,
> then of course what kind of worms your fish might have. There are round
> worms, whip worms, tape worms, etc. Each tend to be sensitive to a
> different drug. The worms don't seem to want to make it easy for us.
Look
> on the ingredients, if it is Ivermectin or Panacure (fenendezol), they are
> more broad spectrum. Caution with fendbendezol since it is very tricky.
> Praziquantel is a drug that is being used more and more these days for
> flukes and cestodes in fish. Then of course you have dosages. If you
want
> to tinker, you can put a little crushed tablet in the tank, wave the majic
> wand and dance around the tank two or three times and hope for the best.
> (Just make sure you don't dance mroe than three times because that is the
> snow dance and the reason why we are in this white mess in the first place
> =) It depends on how much effort you want to put into this fish.
>
> Nick Zarlinga
> Aquarium Biologist
> Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
> 216.661.6500 ext 4485
>
>
> ><)> -----Original Message-----
> ><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> ><)> On Behalf
> ><)> Of Todd Crail
> ><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:15 PM
> ><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> ><)> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
> ><)>
> ><)>
> ><)> Thanks for all the responses folks. I think I'm
> ><)> going to do a quarantine
> ><)> with salt and feed in the dewormer. I only
> ><)> suggested the metronidiazole
> ><)> because I knew it worked with _some_ gut
> ><)> parasites. Maybe people who've
> ><)> worked with a lot of wild acquisitions like the
> ><)> zoo folks have a better
> ><)> suggestion? Any suggestions? A tiny bit off the
> ><)> dog stuff?
> ><)>
> ><)> While I am intrigued by the dietary
> ><)> considerations, I don't think this is an
> ><)> issue. He's getting plenty of carbonate and
> ><)> chitin from krill and mysis if
> ><)> that's what he's after... Also gets "vitamined to
> ><)> death spirulina" and a
> ><)> "vitamined to death veggie flake" so that should
> ><)> take care of the greens and
> ><)> stuff (the addatives on the HBH and Sera products
> ><)> read like paragraphs from
> ><)> some strange Chemist ;). Between all that protein
> ><)> available and then the
> ><)> specifically preformed enzymes etc, diet really
> ><)> shouldn't be an issue.
> ><)>
> ><)> There is also a reproducing population of a small
> ><)> snail that came in on some
> ><)> of the rubble in the system (actually both of the
> ><)> native systems that I
> ><)> introduced this rubble to) and I'm pretty sure
> ><)> they're getting regular
> ><)> swipes at them. I often see them hunting and then
> ><)> attacking, and the
> ><)> ensuing cloud of something pumping out of their
> ><)> gills when they're chewing
> ><)> (besides sand). Have never had the chance to
> ><)> catch what it is they're
> ><)> striking. It's too small or blends in too well.
> ><)>
> ><)> So I'm not disagreeing that this should be a
> ><)> consideration. I guess I'm
> ><)> just saying I'm pretty darn sure I have all those
> ><)> bases covered. Maybe I
> ><)> don't?
> ><)>
> ><)> This has been an issue with him since his
> ><)> collection in late September... I
> ><)> noticed it early on after he emerged from
> ><)> acclimatization that he wasn't the
> ><)> most robust fish, but since I'd given him the
> ><)> trouble of coming home, I
> ><)> figured I'd see if I couldn't at least try and
> ><)> help him out instead of
> ><)> giving up right away. Good food and good water
> ><)> params don't seem to be
> ><)> doing the trick. So, it was time to move to plan
> ><)> B or plan CO2 ;)
> ><)>
> ><)> Thanks again
> ><)> Todd
> ><)>
> ><)> ----- Original Message -----
> ><)> From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
> ><)> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> ><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:37 AM
> ><)> Subject: RE: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
> ><)>
> ><)>
> ><)> > I'd go the quarantine route with some kind of
> ><)> medicated food if it is
> ><)> > eating. You can make a gel diet and add some
> ><)> kind of wormer in it.
> ><)> >
> ><)> > Nick Zarlinga
> ><)> > Aquarium Biologist
> ><)> > Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
> ><)> > 216.661.6500 ext 4485
> ><)> >
> ><)> >
> ><)> > ><)> -----Original Message-----
> ><)> > ><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> ><)> > ><)> On Behalf
> ><)> > ><)> Of Todd Crail
> ><)> > ><)> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:45 PM
> ><)> > ><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> ><)> > ><)> Subject: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> Greetings...
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> I've got an orangespot sunfish that
> ><)> is in the
> ><)> > ><)> worst way. I don't know what
> ><)> > ><)> the deal is... He's always chowed
> ><)> down since I've
> ><)> > ><)> had him, but dorsally, he
> ><)> > ><)> looks like an emaciated saltwater
> ><)> Tang, he has
> ><)> > ><)> flare ups of ich and fungus,
> ><)> > ><)> his eyes bulge sorta exopthalamusy
> ><)> (is that a
> ><)> > ><)> word? :) now and then, with
> ><)> > ><)> minimal opacity.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> He's just a mess.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> I'd usually say it was system
> ><)> stress and try and
> ><)> > ><)> troubleshoot it and correct
> ><)> > ><)> it... But there ain't nobody else
> ><)> in there with a
> ><)> > ><)> single problem. Among
> ><)> > ><)> those enlisted are redside dace,
> ><)> blacknose dace,
> ><)> > ><)> blackstripe topminnows,
> ><)> > ><)> tadpole madtoms etc that would buy
> ><)> the farm on
> ><)> > ><)> whim and seem to be very
> ><)> > ><)> succeptable to ectoparasitic
> ><)> "blooms" when system
> ><)> > ><)> stress is present. So
> ><)> > ><)> I'm pretty convinced it's just him.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> This time he's flared up with the external
> ><)> > ><)> parasties two days _after_ the
> ><)> > ><)> waterchange. I don't know if he
> ><)> prefered whatever
> ><)> > ><)> the nitrates were at
> ><)> > ><)> before the waterchange, but they're
> ><)> undetectable
> ><)> > ><)> now. I wouldn't be
> ><)> > ><)> suprised if I went down and saw him
> ><)> floating on
> ><)> > ><)> any given day... But he's
> ><)> > ><)> looked this bad before and somehow
> ><)> pulled back out
> ><)> > ><)> of it. Never gained any
> ><)> > ><)> weight back tho. Just gone through
> ><)> this ebb and
> ><)> > ><)> tide of "looks like crap"
> ><)> > ><)> to "looks hopeful".
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> Put 'em down and cut 'em open and
> ><)> take a looky?
> ><)> > ><)> Put him in a quarantine and
> ><)> > ><)> metronidazole the crap out of him?
> ><)> Hey that was
> ><)> > ><)> kinda punny... ;)
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> I'm getting nervy about intestinal
> ><)> parasites,
> ><)> > ><)> though I've seen no evidence
> ><)> > ><)> of them. No bloating or anal irritation, no
> ><)> > ><)> discharge or clear "feces".
> ><)> > ><)> But his wasting and
> ><)> imunosuppression seem to be right on.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> I didn't want to waste him if there
> ><)> were other
> ><)> > ><)> options. Or if that was the
> ><)> > ><)> best option, I guess get some
> ><)> suggestions to do it.
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> I hate nuking fish I've had for awhile :(
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> Todd
> ><)> > ><)>
> ><)> > ><)> It's never too late to have a happy
> ><)> childhood.
> ><)> > ><)> http://www.farmertodd.com
> ><)> > ><)> ---------------------------
> ><)> > ><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments
> ><)> made on this
> ><)> > ><)> list do not necessarily
> ><)> > ><)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
> ><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes
> ><)> > ><)> / Association"
> ><)> > ><)> / This is the discussion list of the North
> ><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes Association
> ><)> > ><)> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe,
> ><)> unsubscribe, or
> ><)> > ><)> get help, send the word
> ><)> > ><)> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help
> ><)> in the body (not
> ><)> > ><)> subject) of an email to
> ><)> > ><)> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a
> ><)> digest version,
> ><)> > ><)> send the command to
> ><)> > ><)> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> ><)> > ><)> / For more information about NANFA,
> ><)> visit our web
> ><)> > ><)> page, http://www.nanfa.org
> ><)> --
> ><)> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
> ><)> list do not necessarily
> ><)> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
> ><)> American Native Fishes
> ><)> > / Association"
> ><)> > / This is the discussion list of the North
> ><)> American Native Fishes
> ><)> Association
> ><)> > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe,
> ><)> or get help, send the word
> ><)> > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body
> ><)> (not subject) of an email to
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> ><)> version, send the command to
> ><)> > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> ><)> > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
> ><)> http://www.nanfa.org
> ><)> ---------------------------
> ><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
> ><)> list do not necessarily
> ><)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
> ><)> American Native Fishes
> ><)> / Association"
> ><)> / This is the discussion list of the North
> ><)> American Native Fishes Association
> ><)> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
> ><)> get help, send the word
> ><)> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not
> ><)> subject) of an email to
> ><)> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version,
> ><)> send the command to
> ><)> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> ><)> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web
> ><)> page, http://www.nanfa.org
> ><)>
-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org /----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org