RE: NANFA-- [Fwd: The Algae Wars] Corrected Links

Nick Zarlinga (njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com)
Wed, 5 Mar 2003 08:30:04 -0500

John, how big is the tank? How long have you had the system set up? If it
has been set up for a long time (a stable couple of years?) I find it
interesting that a small event such as you described is enough to cause the
system to teater a bit (I am not doubting you, I just find it interesting).
I think that we all would agree that the longer the system has been set up,
the harder it is to kick it off balance. In reef tanks for instance, your
parameters can seem to check out perfectly but the animals just don't seem
to look right and you get funky types of algae growing. The only thing that
I have been able to chalk it up to is a cycle that is occurring and it just
needs to cycle out. I think the longer they have been set up, the less
"cycles" a tank goes through. I wonder if in your case, the best thing to
do would be to do a bunch of regular water changes, cut the light a bit, and
get something that might eat the algae. Some animals were already mentioned
but another one would be to pickup a (dare I mention an exotic on this
list.....) flying fox. They seem to do a good job on this small stringy
type of stuff. It may take several months for it (or them depending on the
tank size) to really take effect, but it might do the trick for you. My
guess is that when these events occur, the unwanted algae has a strong foot
hold and is somewhat resilient to correction methods. Algae are wonderful
organisms and I don't think that they have a narrow window of requirments to
live by. I think that bio-control, at least for a while, is an under rated
solution. That may help in breaking this unwanted cycle. I would hope that
you are taking good notes of your observations. There is still alot that we
all need to learn on these "stable" systems. As they say, just my $.02.

Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net On Behalf
Of hy finkelstein
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 5:22 PM
To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
Subject: Re: NANFA-- [Fwd: The Algae Wars] Corrected Links

I have unfortunately seen the same algae develop in my planted tanks, even
the onews with lots of hornwort floating at the top. I have seen it take
over everything but wolffia. No matter what I tried, I could not stop it
from taking over. Had to break down the affected tanks and start them over
again. It even happened in my outdoor pools. The one factor I did notice
is that this started after my city changed over to a different water
supplier, importing water, and no longer using local well water. Sorry I do
not have a solution.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sajjad Lateef" <sajjadlateef_at_yahoo.com>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: NANFA-- [Fwd: The Algae Wars] Corrected Links

> On usenet rec.aquaria newsgroups, there are
> several techniques suggested for algae suppression:
>
> 1. Physical removal (i.e. pull it out, cut off leaves etc)
> 2. Starve algae of nutrients and light (i.e. reduce Phosphate
> levels in the water, reduce or stop fertilizers, shut off
> all light to the tank for a few days, add more plants)
> 3. Get fish that eat algae (eg: J. floridae, Ameca splendens,
> Mollies, siamese algae eaters, farowella catfish)
>
> I am TOTALLY AGAINST chemical treatment with algaecides (herbicides).
> But, that's also an option, if you so choose.
>
> Your algae looked like fine cottony clumps to me. I have seen that
> with high-intensity lights near the top of the tank. I suggest
> adding some fast growing plants (Hornworth, Najas, Riccia) to
> the top of the tank to reduce some of the light and soak up some
> nutrients. Also, dig in and remove some algae by hand. Your water
> supply sometimes has an increase in the Phosphate content and
> that will result in algae growth spurts.
>
> So, try a few different things and soon you'll find out what works.
>
> Sajjad
> --- Todd Crail <farmertodd_at_buckeye-express.com> wrote:
> > I've been thinking about this a bit John....
> >
> > I have no idea what the algae is... I've seen it before when I let
> > hornwort
> > or anacharis get too thick, and food and detritus gets kinda stuck
> > inbetween, and even more so in the hairs. It seems to fertilize
> > itself that
> > way and only gets worse as it goes along. Perhaps it would be best
> > to do a
> > heavy duty trim? When I see that type of algae show up, I do a trim,
> > significant water change, and then refertilize like it was brand new
> > with
> > Florena or Flourish... whatever. Seems to get the system back in
> > the right
> > general direction.
> >
> > The other thought I've had is... Perhaps all the ions and
> > nitrification
> > products are unmeasurable because they're getting converted so
> > quickly by
> > the plants and algae? A lot of people who, as an example, use tap
> > water in
> > their marine tanks, have hair algae as thick as a fine maidens head,
> > and
> > swear up and down they can't measure any PO4 until they actually test
> > it
> > *before* it goes into the tank :) You've *obviously* removed it with
> > the DI
> > (might also want to check the conductivity of your output water to
> > see if
> > the DI is getting old)...
> >
> > However, if there's that much detritus rotting down inbetween the
> > plants...
> > That's a great source of PO4. Something to chew on.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Bongiovanni" <bongi_at_cox-internet.com>
> > To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:01 PM
> > Subject: NANFA-- [Fwd: The Algae Wars] Corrected Links
> >
> >
> > > Today begins my second battle of the Algae War. Approximately a
> > year
> > > ago I fought a battle against a similar opponent soundly defeating
> > it.
> > > But today, I begin the second great battle of the Algae wars.
> > >
> > > A little backround: Back during Christmas, on my trip up to Ohio to
> > > visit the folks, I left the care of my native planted tank in the
> > hands
> > > of a trusted neighbor. She fed the fish and they survived without
> > > issue. The plants were another story. In the space of 12 days I
> > came
> > > back to an absolute jungle; Rotalla, Riccia, Bacopa, Ludwigia were
> > > entwined in a network that confounded all my attempts to untangle.
> > I
> > > also fixed a bank of flourescents (the rear pair of 40Ws) that had
> > had
> > > not been starting with the fronts. It was a grounding issue which
> > was
> > > fixed. My madtoms had tunneled underneath the java moss thus
> > dislodging
> > > the strands causing half the bundle of moss to float towards the
> > surface
> > > of the tank resembling a huge green wall. I removed the driftwood
> > that
> > > the java moss was attached wrap a hairnet around it and rearrange
> > it it
> > > the tank. This of course unsettled alot of organic matter that had
> > > settled on the bottom. I did a 20% water change with DI.
> > >
> > > The madtoms were not finished. Seeing the driftwood java moss
> > secured
> > > they moved to the moss on a rock and did the same. I repeated my
> > > efforts on the rock to get control. Almost immediately a nasty
> > looking
> > > green algae took over the tank.. Fine 1cm hairs are drifting all
> > over
> > > tank like snow, attaching themselves to the plants like persistant
> > green
> > > cobwebs. Photos are
> > >
> >
>
<http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/maxx8/lst?.dir=/Aquarium+Photos/Algae&.src=ph&.o
> > rder=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/>here
> > >
> >
>
<http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/maxx8/lst?.dir=/Aquarium+Photos/Algae&.src=ph&.o
> > rder=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/>.
> > >
> >
>
<http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/maxx8/lst?.dir=/Aquarium+Photos/Algae&.src=ph&.o
> > rder=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/>
> > >
> > > I checked the nutrient levels in the tank. Phosphate, Nitrate, Fe,
> > > ammonia, nitite is not detectable chelated and non; pH is 6.8, GH
> > is
> > > 20dGH and KH is 70dKH. All the time I had been injecting CO2 to
> > > maintain ph and plants. Seeing no measurable nutrients i began
> > adding
> > > fertilizer (flourish micronutrient suppliment). Thing just got
> > worse.
> > > Now it is early Feb and my folks are coming to visit Texas from
> > Ohioand
> > > I wanted to make sure that the tank looked presentable. I reduced
> > the
> > > light to 8-hours and just one bank of lights and stopped CO2
> > injection.
> > > The algae nearly disappeared just as my folks arrived but now the
> > stems
> > > are stretching with the innernode length getting long making the
> > plants
> > > look somewhat stringy. I cut them back increased the light and
> > whamo,
> > > the algae takes off again.
> > >
> > > So now I've decided to turn on the lights on fullblast, CO2 inject,
> > > fertilize like crazy and just sit back and watch the battle and see
> > who
> > > comes out on top.
> > >
> > > Anyone know what kind of algae that I'm battling?
> > >
> > >
> > > John
> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not
> > necessarily
> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> > / Association"
> > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
> > Association
> > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the
> > word
> > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an
> > email to
> > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command
> > to
> > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
> http://www.nanfa.org
>
>
> =====
> --
> Sajjad Lateef
> sajjad_at_acm.org

--
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
Association
> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
> / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
> / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page,
http://www.nanfa.org
--
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org