> First off, I'd like to make sure that you know I'm not being critical of
you
> in any way Bob.
[I know that, Todd. Everthing's ok on this end. Actually, I'd been pretty
careful about the water changes, so I'm relatively stumped. I've now moved
the fish into a tank with a big clump of water sprite that takes up about
three quarters of the 10 gallon tank they're in. On Chris's advice, I'm
going to treat with Maracyn II, and hope it doesn't kill the water sprite,
which basically are big nitrogen sponges.]
I hope you understand that in the most gracious way
> (hopefully :) I thought I'd provide another perspective. I usually keep
my
> mouth shut about this topic because my understanding only causes hassles
as
> there are umpteen million books to tell you to do *exactly* what you're
doing.
> And being a heretic is tiresome profession. However, I think this group
is
> capable of having a amiable discussion, so I'm not all the worried about
it
> :)
>
> With that said and consideration of my last email, I'm not really sure how
the
> people who purport this is the best methodology can justify removing the
> biological filter in a hurry like that to take care of the end of
> nitrification... Which in my experience just throws them back to a surplus
of
> the *beggining* of nitrification, which is obviously more stressful.
>
> I mean really... What happens when you dilute the biological by 40%
> (considering there's still a majority of bacteria in the gravel etc) by
> removing almost all the water and then following up with a chemical known
to
> kill bacteria? Chemicals of the sort we're mentioning here are never
biased
> about who's peptidoglycan synthesis they're going to inhibit today...
>
> Certainly, you could use the umpteen million products that have come about
> from an industry that's made a fine living off of dead and dying animals
to
> keep up and manufacture an ecosystem while the real one tries desperately
to
> catch back up. But I don't think that's necessary.
>
> However, I should ask myself what I would do in your situation, and
hopefully
> this is seen as helpful advice or a amiable opinion, again, instead of
> criticism :)
>
> I would get test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate if you don't have
> them... I would change water out of known healthy systems into this one,
and
> switch some of the gravel (I'm assuming you have multiple systems) to
> restablish the biological that may have been hosed when the tetracycline
was
> added... And I would carefully survey where this system is at currently.
>
> It is *highly* likely that the resulting infection was shipping stress.
> However, I think it would be best to take a step back and look at where
the
> system is right now. It would be absolutely unfortunate to create a cycle
for
> a non-issue, thus making an issue.
>
> Of course, if you gave the animals 4 hours baths in tetracycline in a
bucket
> *away from the system* (which is the only way I'd do any of this if you
felt
> it necessary)... Well, I've just typed this in vain mostly :)
>
> Okay, there's my 2 cents and now I'm back into the telephone booth to
> transform into my alterego... SuperGeek.
>
> Todd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Bock
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:00 PM
> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Subject: Re: NANFA-- fish parasites
>
>
> I'm doing lots of water changes on them, actually. More than 90 percent,
> every other day.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crail, Todd" <tcrail_at_northshores.com>
> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:19 AM
> Subject: RE: NANFA-- fish parasites
>
>
> > Actually, if you haven't, I'd check the nitrate before I added any more
> > chemicals to the equation (or just start changing water if you don't
feel
> like
> > it). I find that it is perhaps the single greatest culprit of immuno
> > suppression that leads to bacterial nastiness and fin corrosion (well
> unless
> > there is stray voltage, which is common too.. may want to check that...
if
> > you're interested I can provide a url about my experience and treatment
of
> > this).
> >
> > In the year that I had the shop, I found the *need* to use
> > chemicals/antibiotics only a couple times (those treatments were
> administered
> > in buckets), and that was dealing with "other people's" fish on a weekly
> > basis.
> >
> > Most of my customers also enjoyed just bringing in water and not finding
> it
> > necessary to spend more money (some were put off that there wasn't just
> > something they could 'buy') and would just have to do a little work, and
> bring
> > in some more water a week later to see where we were and gleefully
mention
> > that the fish had stabalized and were making a great comeback.
> >
> > Of course, that approach doesn't pay the bills, so you'll also know why
> I'm
> > sitting here avoiding writing code, acting like a fish geek instead of
the
> > computer one I'm supposed to be right now ;)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Stallsmith
> > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:23 PM
> > To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> > Subject: Re: NANFA-- fish parasites
> >
> >
> > This kind of infection (bacterial I bet) means that the fish are either
> old
> > and dying, or under environmental stress. I would do the last
tetracycline
> > treatment, wait a few days, and then do a large, maybe 50% water change.
> > That ain't no guarantee, of course!
> >
> > --Bruce Stallsmith
> > Huntsville, AL, US of A
> >
> > >From: "Bob Bock" <bockhouse_at_earthlink.net>
> > >Reply-To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> > >To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> > >Subject: Re: NANFA-- fish parasites
> > >Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:09:22 -0500
> > >
> > >Dear Dr. Scharpfenfisch:
> > >
> > >My crappies have some kind of bacterial or fungal infection that seems
to
> > >be
> > >slowly eating away at their caudal fins. I have no idea what it could
> be,
> > >what with being fairly clueless and all. My best guess was to treat
with
> > >Paragon, and to throw in some extra tetracycline that I found way in
the
> > >back of the fish cabinet. The infection doesn't seem to be getting any
> > >worse, but then again doesn't seem to be getting any better.
> > >
> > >I've been treating for about six days now and I dose with the last
> > >tetracycline tablet tomorrow. Please tell me what to do, so I can
avoid
> > >going out to buy more tetracycline on my day off.
> > >
> > >Signed,
> > >
> > >Troubled in Mollyville
> > -
> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> > / Association"
> > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
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> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
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> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
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http://www.nanfa.org
-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org /----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org