I know that it is not the single animal in an aquarium that causes
difficulty for native fishes and their habitats. Neither is it the single
application of DDT on the walls of a house to keep disease bearing mosquitos
at bay that is the cause of accumulation of DDT and its metabolites in
environments.
The difficulty with acting on our own short term desires is that those short
term desires may contribute to a trade or practice that is detrimental. If
I want to keep a snakehead, I have to get it from a source that imports
snakeheads (unless I go to a local habitat that has already had them
introduced and where they are already possibly wreaking havoc). Getting the
snakehead from a source that imports them encourages the source to import
more. I have no idea where those that I don't take home to my aquaria will
end up. The state, through its conservation agencies has recognized the
problem.
Were I a resident of S. Carolina, I would cooperate. I am not a S. Carolina
resident, but I have no intention of dealing with importers of banned
fishes -- or importers of non-banned fishes for that matter.
Maybe a part of the problem here is the endowment of non-fishy traits to
fishes. Fishes kept as pets must be cared for properly, to keep them
healthy. Fishes that are an environmental problem need to be dealt with,
properly.
I'll climb off the soap box.
Dave McNeely
----- Original Message -----
From: "nanfa" <owner-nanfa-digest_at_aquaria.net>
To: <nanfa-digest_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 7:29 AM
Subject: nanfa V1 #1421
>
> nanfa Sunday, September 15 2002 Volume 01 : Number
1421
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Traci Mount <oznog_1_at_yahoo.com>
> Subject: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC
>
> >People who have snakehead fish will have a 30-day amnesty period to turn
in
> >the fish. Violations could bring a $200 fine or 30 days in jail.
>
>
>
> You know, that makes me kinda mad. I don't own any snake heads and don't
plan to, but the fact of the matter is some types are kept as pets. I don;t
know what kind of fishy personality they have. For instance, I have an
oscar, if they made it illegal to keep him, I would never give him up. I do
realize that oscars and snake heads are two totally different types of fish
but maybe instead confiscating them, they could make the people that have
snakeheads as pets get a permit for them, OR turn them in. You know that if
you give them your pet snakehead, they aren't going to give it a good home!
Would you ever give someone a pet you love, knowing they are going to kill
it? I think not!
> My soapbox for the day
> Traci Mount
-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:53:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: Traci Mount <oznog_1_at_yahoo.com> > Subject: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC > > >People who have snakehead fish will have a 30-day amnesty period to turn in > >the fish. Violations could bring a $200 fine or 30 days in jail. > > > > You know, that makes me kinda mad. I don't own any snake heads and don't plan to, but the fact of the matter is some types are kept as pets. I don;t know what kind of fishy personality they have. For instance, I have an oscar, if they made it illegal to keep him, I would never give him up. I do realize that oscars and snake heads are two totally different types of fish but maybe instead confiscating them, they could make the people that have snakeheads as pets get a permit for them, OR turn them in. You know that if you give them your pet snakehead, they aren't going to give it a good home! Would you ever give someone a pet you love, knowing they are going to kill it? I think not! > My soapbox for the day > Traci Mount-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 01:35:09 -0500 > From: "R. W. Wolff" <choupiqu_at_wctc.net> > Subject: NANFA-- Geoff > > Geoff Kimber, > Please reply to me off list, > Ray-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 14:02:41 -0500 > From: "Mark Otnes" <markotnes_at_email.msn.com> > Subject: NANFA-- A good place to snorkel on the Little River. > > Hello. I'm wondering if anyone could give me a good exact location where I > could snorkel on the Little River (near Maryville in Tennessee) and have a > good chance of seeing Blotchsided Logperch and Longhead Darters? I'm > heading down to Chattanooga the last weekend of September and I'll be > staying for about a week. I would like to make and observation only trip up > to the Little River and see these two rare fish. > > Thanks > > Mark Otnes > Fargo ND-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:41:58 -0500 > From: "R. W. Wolff" <choupiqu_at_wctc.net> > Subject: Re: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC > > > You know, that makes me kinda mad. I don't own any snake heads and don't > plan to, but the fact of the matter is some types are kept as pets. > > There is one quote that I read that particularly galled me. " Why do they > need them anyways". By using this typical blanket regulation, they could say > that all antabantoid fish should be banned, who needs them? For that matter, > why not cichlids, characins, cobitidids, cyprinids, centcharcids, and on and > on. All of these fish have caused problems some where. > > This is not la la land goofy talk, this kind of stuff has been happening > to reptile keepers for atleast a decade. This makes quick feel good laws get > passed, they make legislators look good because they are taking action. Not > to mention more money can be drawn in. Now some of you thought Jeff's post > on government intrusion was irrelevant. > > Ray-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 15:37:01 EDT > From: Moontanman_at_aol.com > Subject: Re: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC > > In a message dated 9/14/02 12:54:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > oznog_1_at_yahoo.com writes: > > << >People who have snakehead fish will have a 30-day amnesty period to turn > in > >the fish. Violations could bring a $200 fine or 30 days in jail. > > > > You know, that makes me kinda mad. I don't own any snake heads and don't > plan to, but the fact of the matter is some types are kept as pets. I don;t > know what kind of fishy personality they have. For instance, I have an oscar, > if they made it illegal to keep him, I would never give him up. I do realize > that oscars and snake heads are two totally different types of fish but maybe > instead confiscating them, they could make the people that have snakeheads as > pets get a permit for them, OR turn them in. You know that if you give them > your pet snakehead, they aren't going to give it a good home! Would you ever > give someone a pet you love, knowing they are going to kill it? I think not! > My soapbox for the day > Traci Mount > >> > I was waiting to see if anyone would catch the fact that many if not most of > these fish are loved pets. Hitler would ice skate before they would take away > one of my pets! Just because most people don't think of fish as pets doesn't > mean the people that own them don't love them. Yes, someone allowed a snake > head to become a problem, I don't dispute that at all but does the government > have the right to take away my pet because I might commit a crime with it? > Try to take away a mans property because he might commit a crime with it and > you will fall into a legal quagmire you might never hear the end of. Once > again our loving big brother has decided for us what we can or cannot own as > a pet for our own good. Fish keepers as a group have virtually no political > power, if one of us makes a mistake we pay for it as group and we pay for it > in any way the powers that be see fit. It doesn't even matter if the fish was > let go by an aquarist or by a restaurant or by a citizen trying to reenact > "Born Free" But if a local DNR decided to turn loose fish non native to the > local watersheds do we get consulted? Does anyone care what we think? Hardly > but when the statistics concerning nonnative releases is publicized more > often than not releases made by the DNR are not separated from releases from > other sources. Accounts of disease releases, disruption of local ecology, and > other bad effects are often reported as thought aquariums are the only source > of such problems when in reality aquarium release is seldom the source of > most problems. Yes, it's true that some nonnative fish have become > established from aquarium related releases but if you research these fish > releases very seldom are the problems reported more than possible problems, > usually worst case scenarios that never come true. No, I don't think fish > should be released into the wild by hobbyists but I think that a real effort > to educate people about the problem is better than another law enacted knee > jerk fashion. I would like to see a report of the problem of nonnative > release with a more truthful assessment of potential problems and the truth > about where most releases originate. Other than in the State of Florida most > fish released outside their home ranges are released by local DNR trying to > promote recreational fishing! Real threat assessments of fish releases > usually only occur after the fact and the threat of tropical fish is always > greatly exaggerated and the damage done by DNR releases is often ignored or > at least down played. Education, information, and a little common sense in > badly needed. Often laws against keeping native aquarium fish are enacted out > of ignorance, misunderstanding, and out right lies. I promote the keeping of > native aquarium fish simply because I think the hobby can raise the concern > for native fish habitats and the need to preserve such habitats. I would love > to see native fish in petshops along with tropical fish. But the powers that > be seem to be more interested in eliminating the aquarium hobby altogether. I > know many of you are thinking paranoia has taken me over but I honestly think > there is an effort to eliminate the keeping of all wild animals as pets. Any > excuse that supports this cause is fodder for the people behind this idea. At > one time I didn't think that the keeping of wild animals as pets had > organized opposition. I now think that not only does the idea of keeping wild > animals as pets have an active opposition I also think that captive breeding > doesn't help these people see that the keeping of fish and herps can be made > less damaging to wild populations. In fact captive breeding seems to be > somehow even more threatening to the "green movement" Every time a law is > enacted that prohibits owning pet or breeding of a particular pet the day > draws nearer that any such pet will be illegal. I think that the prohibition > of fish and herps as pets should be actively fought by all of us. Even laws > that seem reasonable can be interpreted in a way that would eventually hurt > us all. We should actively try to get laws overturned. Even when a law > doesn't concern you personally the next one might and if we don't stick > together we'll loose our rights one at a time. One law that bothers me > greatly is the law against selling baby turtles. At the time this law was > enacted it was a knee jerk reaction to parents who bought baby turtles for > children too young to keep them. The risk of salmonella was used as an excuse > even though the chicken you buy for supper is a far greater threat than baby > turtles are. But even though turtles are fairly easily propagated and captive > breeding of turtles would take some of the pressure off wild populations. As > new varieties of turtles that don't occur in nature become more available > like is being done with snakes now the demand for the captive breed varieties > would also keep wild turtles in the wild and domesticated turtles would be > more desirable. No, I don't think that captive breeding would solve all the > problems of fish and herps as pets but I think it's a better plan than the > eventual outlawing of pets other than dogs and cats. There are at least two > possible paths to take, one path cuts us off from the wild as completely as > possible. Another path would allow us to enjoy the wild as much as possible > while preserving as much as possible. I suggest that people interested in > preserving a connection between people and nature start now. Don't agree to > knee jerk type laws enacted to limit your enjoyment of nature. Support the > distribution of information at all levels to give people the knowledge to > make intelligent decisions without big brother deciding for us. I know it > seems a little early in the game to claim a conspiracy against us but nipping > problems in the bud is always easier than getting back rights after you have > lost them. > > Moon-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:52:57 -0400 > From: "Bruce Stallsmith" <fundulus_at_hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC > > Well, OK. We could get all worked up about the nanny state and other > Libertarian feel-good issues. But there is a long-term problem in the pet > hobby, that people buy small, cute animals that turn into large, > hard-to-keep animals and letting them loose can seem a good idea. Everyone > on this list has a pretty good idea that that's a bad idea, and in truth > most animal hobbyists know that too. But it only takes a very few instances > of ignoramuses releasing snakeheads or some other fishes and we all have a > problem that's not easily fixed. How do you weigh my interest in not having > any of the Channidae released into North American waters versus the interest > of someone who wants to keep these fishes? Of course I don't like having > Gambusia released all over the place either, but government agenices do it > in many places, especially California... Exotic species introductions are > number two behind habitat destruction for causing extinctions. How much do > you care? That's the stark, ugly question. > > And I should know about the small, cute animal bit above; that's how I came > into Nigel, a Nile Monitor lizard who lives in my greenhouse. When he was > only a foot long he was too much for the person who bought him; now he's > three feet long. And so it goes... > > - --Bruce Stallsmith > Huntsville, AL, US of A > > > This is not la la land goofy talk, this kind of stuff has been > >happening > >to reptile keepers for atleast a decade. This makes quick feel good laws > >get > >passed, they make legislators look good because they are taking action. Not > >to mention more money can be drawn in. Now some of you thought Jeff's post > >on government intrusion was irrelevant. > > > >Ray-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:29:52 -0400 > From: Christopher Scharpf <ichthos_at_charm.net> > Subject: Re: NANFA-- Re: Snakeheads in SC > > Snakeheads eat gamefish. > Anglers outnumber aquarists. > > Nuff said. > > Chris-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org > > ------------------------------ > > End of nanfa V1 #1421 > *********************-- > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org /----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org