Re: NANFA-- Bluenose Shiners & Pond Update- Recovery from

Steffen Hellner (steffen_at_hellner.biz)
Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:37:11 +0200

As far as I am informed (so it may be different) the welaka and hubbsi are
separated in nature, their ranges don4t overlap. And more, they seem to live
in the same ecological niche and that shouldn4t be kept together as they
most probably would rival each other. Or - even worse! - could cross over as
there might be no genetical barrier becaue they don4t live syntop and never
encounter each other in nature.

Steffen

> Von: Chip Rinehart <crin_at_glassmaster.com>
> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Datum: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:36:53 -0400
> An: "'nanfa_at_aquaria.net'" <nanfa at aquaria.net>
> Betreff: RE: NANFA-- Bluenose Shiners & Pond Update- Recovery from Winterk
ill
>
> As I prepare my pond for the bluenose shiners and dollar sunfish, I have
> decided to make two sections that the dollars can't follow the welaka into.
> This will be done using 1/2" (or 3/4", I haven't decided for certain) rigid
> plastic screen that the welaka can swim through but the dollars can't.
> Hopefully this will allow the shiners some refuge so they don't become
> fishfood. I'll probably put some Heterandria in there too, so that the
> dollars will have something else to chase.
>
> Another thought.....are welaka and hubbsi ever found in the same locations?
> I want to try the hubbsi as well but can only manage to get the one pond
> setup before winter. I'm wondering if they would try to cross or if one
> species starting to spawn might stimulate the other?
>
> Chip
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steffen Hellner [SMTP:steffen_at_hellner.biz]
>> Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 3:15 PM
>> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Bluenose Shiners & Pond Update- Recovery from
>> Winterkill
>>
>> Yes, either that or they4ll be eaten. Or are they fast enaough to escape
>> the
>> pumpkinseeds all the way?
>>
>> Steffen
>>
>>> Von: Jeffrey Fullerton <tcmajorr_at_westol.com>
>>> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>>> Datum: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:29:58 -0400
>>> An: "nanfa_at_aquaria.net" <nanfa at aquaria.net>
>>> Betreff: NANFA-- Bluenose Shiners & Pond Update- Recovery from
>> Winterkill
>>>
>>>> Of course, another way is to throw them in a pond with pumpkinseeds or
>> other
>>>> centrarchids. Welaka are facultative nest associates; once the
>> pumpkinseeds
>>>> starts spawning, the welaka should too.
>>>>
>>> Chris & Others
>>>
>>> That would be very easy for me to do. Dollar Sunfishes ought to work
>>> too, but Pumpkinseeds are easy to come by if for some reason they don't.
>>>
>>> One other change I would like to try hubbsii instead of welaka-
>>> partially because I like them better and because they are supposably a
>>> little more better off than the latter and also they have a more
>>> northerly range and have a better chance of surviving outdoors here or
>>> even in my greenhouse pond which holds steady in the low 50s in winter.
>>>
>>> This would make a great surrogate species to work out a husbandry
>>> routine for welaka and I would happily dedicate a pond to these and a
>>> few other associated species and share surplus fish and info with other
>>> interested parties and individuals.
>>>
>>> Lately I have not been contributing much about my ponds to the list
>>> because of preoccupation with the greenhouse so I'm long overdue on a
>>> report regarding the outcome of the recovery of my ponds from a severe
>>> winterkill. I lost a good many species including tadpole madtoms and
>>> bluespotted sunfishes and a few others- leaving mostly Northern Redbelly
>>> Dace, Eastern Mudminnows and just a handfull of Golden Shiners.
>>>
>>> Oh, almost forgot- Brook Sticklebacks and a few Pearl Dace and Brassy
>>> Minnows.
>>>
>>> Well, I decided because of what I heard regarding the appetite of Golden
>>> Shiners for other fish fry and their tendency to munch on tender plants-
>>> I decided to exclude them for the time being and see how things go.
>>>
>>> The few surviving NRBDs spawned and the water is now swarming with young
>>> of the year fry like never before. This after years of trying to get
>>> them to breed at least enough to maintain a stable population , a
>>> breakthrough! I'm convinced now that the Golden Shiners were the reason
>>> they couldn't in the past. The experience has enlightened me to the fact
>>> that I can't have everything- at least not without constant restocking
>>> or alot of work to maintain separate spawning facilities- a
>>> contradiction to my origional goal to have the pond as a self-regulating
>>> system that requires minimal maintenance.
>>>
>>> Small systems work better with lower species diversity. If I ever did
>>> get a start of P. hubbsii, or Taillight Shiners the same would probably
>>> be true- I'd have to narrow my focus to a small set of species or else
>>> I'd likely loose them. But success with them would be well worth giving
>>> up something else!
>>>
>>> Maybe I'd even switch from Dollar Suns to the locally availible
>>> Pumpkinseed and that would be one less species to have to worry about
>>> loosing in a hard winter- and winter some shiners in a tank, or in the
>>> greenhouse for insurance would not be so taxing.
>>>
>>> I still like Dollars, so I'd always winter a couple pairs and some young
>>> to keep them around.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>> -
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