Re: NANFA-L-- Kin Selection

Joshua L. Wiegert (JLW-in-dune.net)
Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:52:06 -0500

Irate --

I can't imagine why. . . . It's a very sound theory which explains a lot of
the behaviours we see in many organisms, and is reasonable when you stop to
think about it (of course, you have to believe in [Neo]Darwinian Evolution
to begin with... but that's another matter).

Basically, if you have a gene, chances are your siblings have it. If this
gene is for, say, bright red colour and a bad taste, chances are your
siblings are red and nasty tasting. We see this kind of expression
constantly. If you're tall, you usually don't have a short brother. If you
have breast cancer, your daughter/sister may. Especially trackalbe with
diseases. So, if some predator picks off a nasty tasting, colourful animal,
and learns not to eat it, the relatives of that organism gain the
protection. This theory is also used to explain why a species may protect
other members of its species-in-all. Why do certain fishes, for instance,
guard and protect fry that aren't theirs? They're related.

It also even -- through a bit of conjecture -- explains how some mimicry
works, though I'm too tired to recall the proper name, I believe it's
batesian? Organisms that are edible look like those that aren't. . . .
This is kind of cuckoo kin selection -- a butterfly looks like a Viceroy
(which are more toxic than Monarchs, not the other way around... :), and
therefore gains protection without being eaten.

However, the mechanisms for the evolution of warning colours are not really
well udnerstood. It seems to me that if a thousand newts hatch from a pond,
and a handful of htem carry the "taste-bad and be red" gene, that they're
walking around with a giant neon "EAT ME" sign. If one gets picked off by a
predator, it's not like he sends out an e-mail to Predators-in-actwin.com, "Hey
guys, don't eat that red thing." They each have to learn on their own (or
get it ingrained into their genetics as an instinct, which is even more far
fetched...). So, a handful of newts with a neon eat-me sign on them can
only train a handful of predators. . . . I can't see many of them surviving
to breed and pass on their traites. Perhaps it's an issue of hybrid vigor
? Their relatives who are heterozygous for the trait survive normally,
continue to produce training newts, and so on? I dunno. :)

JW.

--
end
  ____^___
><,DARWIN,>
Joshua L. Wiegert
AIM UID: JoshuaWiegert                                                ICQ 
UIN: 276060292
Feel free to contact me by any of the above means for any reason.
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I'm sorry for not communicating more frequently, but sometimes its hard to 
write on a moving planet.
   - Ashleigh Brilliant

The things that come to those that wait may be the things left by those who got there first.

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato

Due to budget cuts, the light-in-the end of the tunnel has been discontinued. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irate Mormon" <archimedes-in-bayspringstel.net> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Michigan Chapter

> Quoting "Joshua L. Wiegert" <JLW-in-dune.net>: > > AKA "inclusive fitness". I've never bought into that theory. > >> Kin selection theory. >> >> You may die, but the predator learns not to eat any more of you, and your >> kin -- sharing that trait, survive. >> >> JW >> -- >> end >> ____^___ >> ><,DARWIN,> >> Joshua L. Wiegert >> AIM UID: JoshuaWiegert ICQ >> UIN: 276060292 >> Feel free to contact me by any of the above means for any reason. >> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >> I'm sorry for not communicating more frequently, but sometimes its hard >> to >> write on a moving planet. >> - Ashleigh Brilliant >> >> The things that come to those that wait may be the things left by those >> who >> got there first. >> >> Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they >> have to say something. >> -- Plato >> >> Due to budget cuts, the light-in-the end of the tunnel has been >> discontinued. >> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <EELReprah-in-aol.com> >> To: <nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org> >> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:12 PM >> Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Michigan Chapter >> >> >> > >> > In a message dated 2/14/05 9:08:22 PM, michiganfish-in-wideopenwest.com >> > writes: >> > >> > << I would guess it helps them from being eaten any other ideas. >> >> > >> > Not really very effective because the eaten madtom doesn't survive and >> > the >> > predator doesn't remember. >> > >> > Lee Harper >> > Media, PA USA >> > /----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes >> > / Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily >> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about >> > NANFA, >> > / visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are >> > / consistent with the guidelines as per >> > / http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/guidelines.html To subscribe, >> > / unsubscribe, or get help, visit the NANFA email list home page and >> > / archive-in-http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/ >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 >> >> /----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes >> / Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily >> / reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about >> NANFA, >> / visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are >> / consistent with the guidelines as per >> / http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/guidelines.html To subscribe, >> / unsubscribe, or get help, visit the NANFA email list home page and >> / archive-in-http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/ >> >> > > > --Irate > > "And you see, a lot of people forget where this thing called rock and roll > came > from. And by the way, it wasn't from California. It wasn't from New York, > or > Wisconsin. It was from this part of the world called Mississippi and > Louisiana > and Tennessee, and a little bit of Missouri. That's where it all came > from." - > Hartley Peavey, founder of Peavey Electronics > /----------------------------------------------------------------------- > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes > / Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA, > / visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are > / consistent with the guidelines as per > / http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/guidelines.html To subscribe, > / unsubscribe, or get help, visit the NANFA email list home page and > / archive-in-http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 > >

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Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005

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