Re: NANFA-L-- Mud sunfish Sacramento Perch

Bob Bock (bockhouse-in-earthlink.net)
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 15:57:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Michael, who is your advisor? Do you have a link to this work? I'd like to cite him in my talk.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Sandel <kwksand-in-yahoo.com>
>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 11:19 AM
>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>Subject: Re: NANFA-L-- Mud sunfish Sacramento Perch
>
>My advisor published a molecular phylogeny (tree of life) on Centrarchidae in 2002.
> Traditionally, both of these species have been considered basal (ancestral) to most other sunfishes (Lepomis, Micropterus etc). According to molecular data, the mud sunfish is the living "relic" of the group, basal to all other sunfishes. You are correct about the mud sunfish having unique scales, but they are cycloid. All other centrarchids have ctenoid scales. Normally, folks interpret cycloid scales to be the primitive type. I am not familiar with Sacramento perch behavior, but if they don't build nests, I would hypothesize this to be a recent behavioral modification. They are most closely related to Crappies (Pomoxis) and Rock Bass (Archoplites). Let me know if you are interested in where pygmy sunfish fit in all of this, we can talk for hours.
>
> Mike
>
>Bob Bock <bockhouse-in-earthlink.net> wrote:
> As long as I'm asking questions--does anyone know if there have been any recent discoveries on whether mud sunnies and/or Sacramento perch are living relatives of a sunfish ancestor? Sacramento perch don't tend nests, and Mud sunnies have ctenoid scales (although it's possible I guess that the ctenoid scales might be a recent adaptation, reminiscent of an ancestral form of scales.)
>
>Thanks, smart people.
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dustin Smith
>>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 10:23 AM
>>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>>
>>It's the family of fish that now comprises the sea basses.
>>
>>
>>
>>Dustin Smith
>>Lexington, SC
>>At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----Original Message Follows----
>>From: Bob Bock
>>Reply-To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>>Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:03:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>>
>>Thanks, Bruce. What's a serranid?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Bruce Stallsmith
>> >Sent: Mar 6, 2006 9:59 AM
>> >To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>> >Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>> >
>> >To be even more precise beyond Dustin's accurate statements, fossil
>>evidence
>> >suggests that the nearest relative of modern centrarchids was an
>>anadromous
>> >serranid that became a North American freshwater fish about 70 million
>>years
>> >ago. So centrarchids are a relatively isolated group phylogenetically.
>> >
>> >--Bruce Stallsmith
>> >along that centrarchid heaven, the Tennessee
>> >Huntsville, AL, US of A
>> >
>> >>From: Bob Bock
>> >>Reply-To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>> >>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>> >>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>> >>Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>> >>
>> >>This is such a great list. You can find someone knowledgeable enough to
>> >>answer just about anything.
>> >>
>> >>Thanks, Dustin!
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>/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
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>/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
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>/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
>/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
>/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
>/ consistent with the guidelines as per
>/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
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/ Association (NANFA). Comments made on this list do not necessarily
/ reflect the beliefs or goals of NANFA. For more information about NANFA,
/ visit http://www.nanfa.org Please make sure all posts to nanfa-l are
/ consistent with the guidelines as per
/ http://www.nanfa.org/guidelines.shtml To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get
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