Re: NANFA-L-- Mud sunfish Sacramento Perch now back to cichlids

Michael Sandel (kwksand-in-yahoo.com)
Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:30:37 -0800 (PST)

Bob,
Don't know if you have this one yet, but looks like the oldest cichlid fossil is 45 million years old, from Tanzania (Murray 2001). If you are talking about old sunfish fossils, they may like this info too.

http://www.journals.royalsoc.ac.uk/(ullbcy45jat2g5mk4aezdynn)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,2,14;journal,128,218;linkingpublicationresults,1:102024,1


Bob Bock <bockhouse-in-earthlink.net> wrote:
As long as I'm asking questions--does anyone know if there have been any recent discoveries on whether mud sunnies and/or Sacramento perch are living relatives of a sunfish ancestor? Sacramento perch don't tend nests, and Mud sunnies have ctenoid scales (although it's possible I guess that the ctenoid scales might be a recent adaptation, reminiscent of an ancestral form of scales.)

Thanks, smart people.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dustin Smith
>Sent: Mar 6, 2006 10:23 AM
>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>
>It's the family of fish that now comprises the sea basses.
>
>
>
>Dustin Smith
>Lexington, SC
>At the convergence of the Broad, Saluda and Congaree
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Bob Bock
>Reply-To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
>Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:03:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>
>Thanks, Bruce. What's a serranid?
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: Bruce Stallsmith
> >Sent: Mar 6, 2006 9:59 AM
> >To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> >Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
> >
> >To be even more precise beyond Dustin's accurate statements, fossil
>evidence
> >suggests that the nearest relative of modern centrarchids was an
>anadromous
> >serranid that became a North American freshwater fish about 70 million
>years
> >ago. So centrarchids are a relatively isolated group phylogenetically.
> >
> >--Bruce Stallsmith
> >along that centrarchid heaven, the Tennessee
> >Huntsville, AL, US of A
> >
> >>From: Bob Bock
> >>Reply-To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> >>To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> >>Subject: RE: NANFA-L-- sunnies v. cichlids was tree of life
> >>Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:54:04 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> >>
> >>This is such a great list. You can find someone knowledgeable enough to
> >>answer just about anything.
> >>
> >>Thanks, Dustin!
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