Harry Knaub
----- Original Message -----
From: <Scott.L.Schlueter_at_LRB01.usace.army.mil>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: NANFA-- (hellbenders plus!)
> Just another note to the non-fish related discussion. There were some
> comments made on questioning if credible evidence exists of a collector
> impacting a NA species. Well here in NY, timber rattlesnakes are listed
as
> threatened. There was one individual collector that has made a severe and
> measureable impact. Estimates have been made that he has collected 4000
> snakes, he admitted that numbers were more to the tune of 9000 snakes.
The
> NYSDEC has estimated that this individual alone accounted for a 60%
> reduction in timber rattlesnakes in NY. I am not sure what you would
argue
> is "credible" evidence? I am sure, no matter how conservative your
> estimates, this individual's behavior has without a doubt lead to
> measureable declines.
>
> Just thought I would throw that out there as an example.
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archimedes_at_bayspringstel.net
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:42 PM
> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Columbia trip gear (hellbenders plus!)
>
>
> Quoting Bruce Stallsmith <fundulus_at_hotmail.com>:
>
> I understand erring on the side of caution - I really do. But nowadays
> everbody
> is raising all kinds of alarms with nothing to back it up, or else they
> produce
> junk "science" to justify their claims. I have not seen any credible
> evidence
> that NA naturalists are contibuting to the decline of any NA animal by
> "collecting" them. I still believe that if this were a _legitimate_
> concern,
> then the majority of professional zoologists would consider it a point of
> honor
> never to harvest wild animals for their own various studies of imperiled
> species.
>
> This is simply another version of the points I debated in A/C with Gene
> Helfman,
> and I have yet to see an effective counterargument. I was kind of hoping
> somebody would take a stab at it :-) If one can avoid protraying me as a
> whining, rationalizing idiot, that is.
>
> > The harm is imperfect knowledge that they may be common, the other side
of
>
> > the coin. We all know things change quickly in many areas, and this is a
> > species with very specific habitat needs. Today's G4-G5 in many areas
may
> be
> --
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-- > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes > / Association" > / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association > / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word > / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to > / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to > / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. > / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org /----------------------------------------------------------------------------- /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes / Association" / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to / nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to / nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead. / For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org