Steffen
> Von: "Stan Perkins" <stanperkins_at_academicplanet.com>
> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Datum: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 21:22:40 -0600
> An: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Betreff: Re: NANFA--now NANFA type aquarist- Collecting ethics
>
> Nick,
> I have to disagree with you on one point of your statement when dealing with
> profesionals and who gets the cookie! The pro with the best pr agent, the
> pro with the best chance of getting grant money, or the pro with the best
> contacts with state/federal biologists are the ones who win most of the
> time! What do they do - turn the work over to a couple of inexperienced
> graduate students!
>
> Stan Perkins
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:43 PM
> Subject: RE: NANFA--now NANFA type aquarist- Collecting ethics
>
>
>> Steffen, your post below illustrates my point. There are hobbyists, then
>> there are exceptional hobbyists. I have to believe that you would agree
>> with me that of the millions of fish enthusiasts out there, that there are
> a
>> relative handful that would be considered exceptional. Of course the
>> biggest problem is how do you determine that a hobbyist is *exceptional
>> enough* to be responsible enough to keep a declining species-as measured
> by
>> the good of the species. At least in the professional world, it is
> usually
>> peer reviewed and often in the public eye. This leads the learning in the
>> right direction. If just anyone were allowed to have these species, there
>> would be no consequences to encourage that forward growth in knowledge.
>>
>>
>> As was effectively pointed out already, we all started as hobbyists. Some
>> of us are lucky enough to get paid for it.
>>
>> Nick Zarlinga
>> Aquarium Biologist
>> Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
>> 216.661.6500 ext 4485
>>
>>
>>> <)> -----Original Message-----
>>> <)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>>> <)> On Behalf
>>> <)> Of Steffen Hellner
>>> <)> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 10:52 AM
>>> <)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
>>> <)> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Collecting ethics
>>> <)>
>>> <)>
>>> <)> man, you4re terribly right in many aspects.
>>> <)>
>>> <)>
>>> <)> > Measuring the passion quotient is easy. Look at
>>> <)> the huge number of
>>> <)> > hobbyists in the world and you tell me how many
>>> <)> have the incling that
>>> <)> > tropical fish actually come from a real place!
>>> <)> This is what makes me sad often. But there are
>>> <)> many left still who know and
>>> <)> can contribute. The mass however is just consumers.
>>> <)>
>>> <)> > Rember the thread about how people are told that
>>> <)> you have to boil your
>>> <)> > driftwood and rocks before you put them in your aquarium?
>>> <)> I am fighting this nonsense ever since! There is
>>> <)> another article in
>>> <)> preparation upon water conditions and what they
>>> <)> really mean to our fish,
>>> <)> what is neccessary and what is obsolet.
>>> <)>
>>> <)> > And hobbyists have a tendency to keep their
>>> <)> aquariums sparkling
>>> <)> > clean. No algae and no detritus is how fish are
>>> <)> supposed to be kept? As
>>> <)> if
>>> <)> > these fish are never exposed to mud, pathogens,
>>> <)> or algae in their natural
>>> <)> > environment.
>>> <)> Again, the consumers, yes. It is our task to steer
>>> <)> against this by any means
>>> <)> we have. The pet industry is really bad in this concern.
>>> <)>
>>> <)> > Hobbyists don't think of where there fish come
>>> <)> from, they just
>>> <)> > think of them in the tank. Again, this is shear
>>> <)> numbers alone. The exact
>>> <)> > opposite thinking is what endeared me to NANFA.
>>> <)> A group of hobbyists who
>>> <)> > are really in tune with their animals *and* the
>>> <)> natural environments where
>>> <)> > they come from. We can have intelligent debates
>>> <)> about all these topics.
>>> <)> > But I don't believe that you can tell me that
>>> <)> the percentage of hobbyists
>>> <)> in
>>> <)> > this country who have a serious passion about
>>> <)> their animals is the same as
>>> <)> > in the professional world. Again its all about
>>> <)> numbers. And we all b*tch
>>> <)> > about the "average" hobbyist on this list server.
>>> <)> I was and am only speaking of NANFA-like type of
>>> <)> aquarists, not the
>>> <)> platy-keepers with a bunch of everything in their
>>> <)> tanks. Those won4t even
>>> <)> think about collecting in the field. Another
>>> <)> example: When I received my
>>> <)> SRBD, northern studfish, and three species of
>>> <)> darters in March 2003 the
>>> <)> veterinarian at the airport asked me how many
>>> <)> species were in the box. I
>>> <)> said five. She became intense (not to say angry)
>>> <)> and shouted: No, it4s all
>>> <)> one species! Gee, she wasn4t able to tell perch
>>> <)> from carpfish! And she is
>>> <)> responsible for wildlife protection by controlling
>>> <)> imports and exports. It4s
>>> <)> good to know that these people are so
>>> <)> professionell and packed with
>>> <)> knowledge. And this person is not an exception but
>>> <)> the average. Any other
>>> <)> experiences are welcome.
>>> <)>
>>> <)> Steffen
>>> <)> ---------------------------
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>>> <)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
>>> <)> American Native Fishes
>>> <)> / Association"
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>>> <)> American Native Fishes Association
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> --
>> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
>> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
>> / Association"
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> Association
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> http://www.nanfa.org
> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
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/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
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/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org