And now we come full round. Who should be allowed to have these backup
populations, if the species is in serious decline and there is little
success in reproduction? This is where I maintain that it needs to be
closely regulated. Yes, how it got there in the first place is the big
issue, however what to do with the issue now is the immediate problem.
as hellbenders, their
><)> > requirements are generally more than the average
><)> person can accomodate,
><)> that
><)> > is why you had better be damned good before I
><)> feel that it is ethical for
><)> > just anyone to keep them, let alone try to breed them.
><)> Don4t get me wrong but I think I am damned good
><)> with sticky animals.
You may be good with these animals, how do you come to that conclusion? Have
you bread similiar species as hellbenders? Have you kept them for even
close to their life expectancy? What is you success rate with surrogate
species? How do we even know how to judge. I am cautious about individuals
who are boastful. Nothing personal. You may be the best, then you may think
you are the best. (This is just rhetorical, not personal. No offense
meant.)
Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> On Behalf
><)> Of Steffen Hellner
><)> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:53 AM
><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> Subject: Re: NANFA-- now genetic
><)> diverstiy-Collecting ethics
><)>
><)>
><)> Hi Nick,
><)>
><)> > I would agree with you that many species have
><)> been able to overcome
><)> > population bottlenecks, especially fish and
><)> amphibs. However is this really
><)> > the best way of trying to preserve a species?
><)> Only if there is no other way or it is a strong
><)> contribution to it.
><)>
><)> > I have to believe that there
><)> > are also examples where a bottleneck does not
><)> benefit a species. Also, just
><)> > because you can get a herd of animals from a few
><)> founders does not ensure
><)> > the survival of the species.
><)> But most examples show. And especially in mammals.
><)> I think you know many of
><)> the species in zoos and refuges having been
><)> brought up again from very small
><)> numbers.
><)>
><)> > There are many genetic defects which can come
><)> > out in later generations and as already
><)> described, the loss of "wild type"
><)> > behaviors can be devestating. Again, I maintain
><)> that we should let nature
><)> > take its course when possible.
><)> This today is already impossible except for very
><)> far out regions in the
><)> world (North Pole, Antarctica, Congo rainforest,
><)> parts of the Amazone).
><)> There already is too much human impact everywhere.
><)>
><)> > That means protecting the land. Harvesting
><)> > the animals should be done for the purpose of
><)> finding more about the
><)> natural
><)> > history of the animals for their conservation.
><)> And for establishing backup populations. or why not?
><)>
><)> > You are right in that the
><)> > risk takers can take us further, however again,
><)> who should be the risk
><)> > takers? If we leave it up to the individual,
><)> there might just be too many
><)> > people who think they can hold the torch. This
><)> is undisciplined and
><)> > irresponsible. Those that have demonstrated
><)> success with a surrogate
><)> > species are obviously better qualified than just
><)> anyone saying, "jeez, that
><)> > is a neet animal, I think I would like to try
><)> breeding it." I am sorry,
><)> but
><)> > I do not think that just anyone should be
><)> allowed to "cut their teeth on a
><)> > species that is declining. For a species such
><)> as hellbenders, their
><)> > requirements are generally more than the average
><)> person can accomodate,
><)> that
><)> > is why you had better be damned good before I
><)> feel that it is ethical for
><)> > just anyone to keep them, let alone try to breed them.
><)> Don4t get me wrong but I think I am damned good
><)> with sticky animals.
><)>
><)> > It is possible for
><)> > private individuals to work in conjunction with
><)> established institutions to
><)> > further the knowledge of the species. If
><)> anything, most institutions are
><)> > will to take volunteers.
><)> And this is good for both. No problem having an
><)> organisation/institute being
><)> the leader of the pack. Regulations are
><)> neccessary. What I am against is
><)> keeping us ("the extraordinary aquarists") out of
><)> it just because we are
><)> non-professionalists. It has come up clearly that
><)> the professional level has
><)> highly profitted from us and still does. That4s ok
><)> but if we e.g. would
><)> boykott them they would really come in trouble in
><)> many fields.
><)> My idea and ideal is ateam-play on equivalent
><)> basis. In the public!
><)>
><)> Steffen
><)> ---------------------------
><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
><)> list do not necessarily
><)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
><)> American Native Fishes
><)> / Association"
><)> / This is the discussion list of the North
><)> American Native Fishes Association
><)> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
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><)> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web
><)> page, http://www.nanfa.org
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org