><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> On Behalf
><)> Of Todd Crail
><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:15 PM
><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)>
><)>
><)> Thanks for all the responses folks. I think I'm
><)> going to do a quarantine
><)> with salt and feed in the dewormer. I only
><)> suggested the metronidiazole
><)> because I knew it worked with _some_ gut
><)> parasites. Maybe people who've
><)> worked with a lot of wild acquisitions like the
><)> zoo folks have a better
><)> suggestion? Any suggestions? A tiny bit off the
><)> dog stuff?
><)>
><)> While I am intrigued by the dietary
><)> considerations, I don't think this is an
><)> issue. He's getting plenty of carbonate and
><)> chitin from krill and mysis if
><)> that's what he's after... Also gets "vitamined to
><)> death spirulina" and a
><)> "vitamined to death veggie flake" so that should
><)> take care of the greens and
><)> stuff (the addatives on the HBH and Sera products
><)> read like paragraphs from
><)> some strange Chemist ;). Between all that protein
><)> available and then the
><)> specifically preformed enzymes etc, diet really
><)> shouldn't be an issue.
><)>
><)> There is also a reproducing population of a small
><)> snail that came in on some
><)> of the rubble in the system (actually both of the
><)> native systems that I
><)> introduced this rubble to) and I'm pretty sure
><)> they're getting regular
><)> swipes at them. I often see them hunting and then
><)> attacking, and the
><)> ensuing cloud of something pumping out of their
><)> gills when they're chewing
><)> (besides sand). Have never had the chance to
><)> catch what it is they're
><)> striking. It's too small or blends in too well.
><)>
><)> So I'm not disagreeing that this should be a
><)> consideration. I guess I'm
><)> just saying I'm pretty darn sure I have all those
><)> bases covered. Maybe I
><)> don't?
><)>
><)> This has been an issue with him since his
><)> collection in late September... I
><)> noticed it early on after he emerged from
><)> acclimatization that he wasn't the
><)> most robust fish, but since I'd given him the
><)> trouble of coming home, I
><)> figured I'd see if I couldn't at least try and
><)> help him out instead of
><)> giving up right away. Good food and good water
><)> params don't seem to be
><)> doing the trick. So, it was time to move to plan
><)> B or plan CO2 ;)
><)>
><)> Thanks again
><)> Todd
><)>
><)> ----- Original Message -----
><)> From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
><)> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:37 AM
><)> Subject: RE: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)>
><)>
><)> > I'd go the quarantine route with some kind of
><)> medicated food if it is
><)> > eating. You can make a gel diet and add some
><)> kind of wormer in it.
><)> >
><)> > Nick Zarlinga
><)> > Aquarium Biologist
><)> > Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
><)> > 216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> >
><)> >
><)> > ><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> > ><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > ><)> On Behalf
><)> > ><)> Of Todd Crail
><)> > ><)> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:45 PM
><)> > ><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > ><)> Subject: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Greetings...
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I've got an orangespot sunfish that
><)> is in the
><)> > ><)> worst way. I don't know what
><)> > ><)> the deal is... He's always chowed
><)> down since I've
><)> > ><)> had him, but dorsally, he
><)> > ><)> looks like an emaciated saltwater
><)> Tang, he has
><)> > ><)> flare ups of ich and fungus,
><)> > ><)> his eyes bulge sorta exopthalamusy
><)> (is that a
><)> > ><)> word? :) now and then, with
><)> > ><)> minimal opacity.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> He's just a mess.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I'd usually say it was system
><)> stress and try and
><)> > ><)> troubleshoot it and correct
><)> > ><)> it... But there ain't nobody else
><)> in there with a
><)> > ><)> single problem. Among
><)> > ><)> those enlisted are redside dace,
><)> blacknose dace,
><)> > ><)> blackstripe topminnows,
><)> > ><)> tadpole madtoms etc that would buy
><)> the farm on
><)> > ><)> whim and seem to be very
><)> > ><)> succeptable to ectoparasitic
><)> "blooms" when system
><)> > ><)> stress is present. So
><)> > ><)> I'm pretty convinced it's just him.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> This time he's flared up with the external
><)> > ><)> parasties two days _after_ the
><)> > ><)> waterchange. I don't know if he
><)> prefered whatever
><)> > ><)> the nitrates were at
><)> > ><)> before the waterchange, but they're
><)> undetectable
><)> > ><)> now. I wouldn't be
><)> > ><)> suprised if I went down and saw him
><)> floating on
><)> > ><)> any given day... But he's
><)> > ><)> looked this bad before and somehow
><)> pulled back out
><)> > ><)> of it. Never gained any
><)> > ><)> weight back tho. Just gone through
><)> this ebb and
><)> > ><)> tide of "looks like crap"
><)> > ><)> to "looks hopeful".
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Put 'em down and cut 'em open and
><)> take a looky?
><)> > ><)> Put him in a quarantine and
><)> > ><)> metronidazole the crap out of him?
><)> Hey that was
><)> > ><)> kinda punny... ;)
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I'm getting nervy about intestinal
><)> parasites,
><)> > ><)> though I've seen no evidence
><)> > ><)> of them. No bloating or anal irritation, no
><)> > ><)> discharge or clear "feces".
><)> > ><)> But his wasting and
><)> imunosuppression seem to be right on.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I didn't want to waste him if there
><)> were other
><)> > ><)> options. Or if that was the
><)> > ><)> best option, I guess get some
><)> suggestions to do it.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I hate nuking fish I've had for awhile :(
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Todd
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> It's never too late to have a happy
><)> childhood.
><)> > ><)> http://www.farmertodd.com
><)> > ><)> ---------------------------
><)> > ><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments
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><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes
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><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes Association
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><)> > /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
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><)> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
><)> American Native Fishes
><)> > / Association"
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><)> American Native Fishes
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><)> http://www.nanfa.org
><)> ---------------------------
><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
><)> list do not necessarily
><)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
><)> American Native Fishes
><)> / Association"
><)> / This is the discussion list of the North
><)> American Native Fishes Association
><)> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
><)> get help, send the word
><)> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not
><)> subject) of an email to
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><)> / For more information about NANFA, visit our web
><)> page, http://www.nanfa.org
><)>
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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