Re: NANFA-- Electricity and thinking aloud...

Todd Crail (farmertodd_at_buckeye-express.com)
Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:34:49 -0400

Well that solves that! I knew it was worth typing this all up.

It's the tank, the I-beam is pulling the voltage from the tank. Time to
drill some holes, mount some screws and hang some wires. That'll take care
of it until we can solve the ground issue in the line. Might not be a bad
permanent solution either. Or... I could hang them to the copper pipes and
get it to the true ground.

In any case, it's time to stop shocking these animals!

Thanks Nick!

Todd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 1:21 PM
Subject: RE: NANFA-- Electricity and thinking aloud...

> Grounding a house is to the water line, and also a rod sunk 8 ft into the
> ground connected to the electrical box with a number 4 (I think) solid
> strand copper wire.
>
> If you shut everything in the tank off, do you still get any voltage if
you
> ground to the I beam? Not sure how false readings come about but I know
> that it is likely.
>
> Nick Zarlinga
> Aquarium Biologist
> Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
> 216.661.6500 ext 4485
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net On Behalf
> Of Todd Crail
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 12:57 PM
> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Subject: NANFA-- Electricity and thinking aloud...
>
>
> Okay. Everybody's down in the basement, and in good time too. The house
> upstairs has been up to 87 degrees the last couple days and the systems
have
> enjoyed only a slow rise into the mid 70's. It's also SERIOUSLY cool to
be
> able to sit in one place and watch all 3 tanks, have food and supplies all
> in one place... Basically, if you have the means, it comes highly
> recommended :)
>
> However, because so many things have changed at once, troubleshooting has
> been difficult...
>
> Basically, because something _did_ change.
>
> I was minorly concerned when I began noticing a little bit of
ectoparasites
> come and go on the fish in the first 75 gallon to go down there. We
played
> with aeration, it went away... It came back, I tested Nitrogen culprits
and
> all that rot. Nothing... I fed heavy and it went away and comes back
every
> couple days, feed heavy, rinse and repeat. That was with bulletproof fish
> like Pumpkinseeds.
>
> With the consequent moves of the 75 rainbowfish and 30 natives, I'm seeing
> similar effects on those animals. A little bit o' ich here and there on
the
> rainbows... Less than usual color on the natives. Southern Red-Bellied
and
> Red-Side Dace look really rough. Again, no nitrogen culprits, pH normal
> range. So there was zero change from the move. If anything, due to
> waterchanges, things were better in the NO3 land of hate.
>
> I'm running Dissolved Oxygen tests right now with a lab grade probe. The
30
> gallon is the most heavily stocked per gallon of the systems. At the end
of
> the photoperiod last night, the DO2 was at 6.0 ppm, this morning after 11
> hours of darkness, 5.2 ppm. Nothing to scream and shout about there. I
may
> try and stabalize this later, but we'll tinker after the current issues
are
> solved. I just began on the 75 native tank... 5.5 ppm after 11.5 hours of
> darkness. With the overhead lights turned on, it began to raise. I was
> amazed that such little photo-stimulation could have that much of an
effect.
> Pretty neat, working as designed. I expect to see it raise to the 6.0+
ppm
> range and also find the same in the 75 rainbow tank.
>
> So back to my good friend electricity.
>
> _I_ did the wiring in the entire basement ;) My uncle, who is an
> electrician, is coming to verify my work on Monday. But if I could solve
> these guy's environmental issues prior to his visit, that'd be great.
What
> I'm concerned about is that I do not have my lines at ground.
>
>
> First question: Are iron support I-beams typically used as the earth
ground
> for a house?
>
>
> If I connect from the tank to the I-beam with a multimeter... I get about
50
> volts (which would shock the snot out of about anything) in each tank.
> However, I'm not sure which way the current is going. If there's stray
> voltage on the I-beam from other circuits, well, that sucks to send into
the
> tank.
>
> If I connect to a metal object (like a strip light frame) from the tank, I
> find about 7 volts in each tank. However, I'm suspicious that since these
> objects are plugged into the same circuit I worked on, that the voltage is
> just fluttering off into some nebulous void, or more specifically, not
> getting removed from the tank. Not a good ground, and possibly only
pulling
> 7 vots off the 50 that are really in the tank.
>
> I don't get _anything_ at all if I connect to the metal conduit, but I
think
> that's by design :)
>
>
> Second question: Can a false ground be created by screwing in a metal
> object (like a heat sink for a vho ballast) into unconnected wood on the
> frame of the house?
>
>
> What I'm thinking of doing is braving the heat of the attic (it was about
> 150 last time I went up there yuck!) and dragging these heat sinks out.
I'd
> rather have them electrifyed than my fish and can just connect my
grounding
> probes using copper braid to these things. They have nice screw holes and
> all that wrot, so I think they'll work... But I wanted to really think
this
> out before I dehydrated myself in 20 seconds or less lol.
>
> I'm 95% sure it's electricity. But I wanted to type all this out so it
> would be clear in my mind what's doing what... And possibly run into
someone
> else's thoughts as they would be very appreciated to be voiced :)
>
> Thanks
> Todd
>
> "The nation behaves well if it treats resources as assets
> which it must turn over to the next generation increased,
> and not impaired, in value."
> - President Theodore Roosevelt
> http://www.farmertodd.com
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> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this list do not necessarily
> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
> / Association"
> / This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes
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> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
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/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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/ reflect the beliefs or goals of the North American Native Fishes
/ Association"
/ This is the discussion list of the North American Native Fishes Association
/ nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or get help, send the word
/ subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not subject) of an email to
/ nanfa-request_at_aquaria.net. For a digest version, send the command to
/ nanfa-digest-request_at_aquaria.net instead.
/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org