Re: NANFA-- Fw: The Minnesota Abuses

Steffen Hellner (steffen_at_hellner.biz)
Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:44:54 +0100

Thanks, Moon!

Its two things worrying me: first, the probability to get punished like a
murder for nill (which happens "normally" in states of which Mr. Bush is
speaking of as "gangster states") which is not suitable for a democratic
state with high scales for human rights. Second, the haressment e.g. german
journalist have taken in the very last months by immigration officers (even
though they went to the USA for private purposes, not for reporting!). I am
journalist as well and when coming over for fish I don4t want to be put in
cluffs and be sent right back at the airport. I was and am a close friend of
America since I was a child and grew up with american soldier families,
found good friends over the fish hobby and served as a liaision officer to
the US Army. But I don4t know if the ruling government will accept that
independently from what they see in Germany after the dispute about the Iraq
war. I am convinced Mr. Bush and his regime butchered the wrong pig (as
Churchill was cited after WW2) and I would have rejected to go down there if
I was drawn to do so. Hope the relations between our countries will be
normal again as it seems to devellop now. But obviously a good part of
America feels framed by Germany which isn4t the fact.

Regarding travelling in foreign countries: I have been in Brazil three
times, in Sierra Leone, Gaboon, Turkey, twice in the USA and I always follow
the rules and laws. But what if I do something which is legal in my country
and I don4t know it is different elsewhere? {This does not include robbery,
murder, rape, drugs and other crimes which are objectively punishable
everywhere in the world (except for some very special regions in Brazil, and
Africa, sadly. When I was in Gaboon a belgian vanished with his car near the
Congo border and wasn4t seen ever after)}. Then there is tolerance needed,
not a crusade. And I expect a democratic state to behave to its citizens the
same way. First think of the positve, not the worst. There is a difference
between consequence and terror. I don4t expect a Congo-rebel to follow human
rights charta but I expect it from every authority in the so called
civilized world. No doubt, a single act in Minnesota is not at all
representative to the USA in general. But the fact that this can happen at
all (we have had similar affaires happening here which doesn4t make it
better). Shit happens, but if it happens for more than three years and
threatens the existance of a company, there must be more wrong. Compared to
that, everybody smashing a creek where e.g. hellbenders live with a SUV must
be sentenced to jail. And what to do with Army authorities who keep on
polluting rivers for gravel? Execute them or what? And what about all the
anglers still transferring species as bait into other habitats? Get tared
and fethered?

You are right, mostly the laws and authorities work well but what if you are
trapped by one excemption? When coming over to collect I will surely cross
some state borders. Am I expected to know each and every little regulation
in all these states as a foreigner? I am preparing for the regulations in
the states I want to visit, to be aware of how to behave and to get all
permits. And if I accidentally oversee one point, what will/can happen to
me? For my trip to Turkey I am applying for a collecting and export permit.
With that in a centralized state I won4t have any problems. But what in a
federational structure where I don4t need a geeral permit but state permits?
What if I collect a species which is not regulated in one state and cross
the border to a state where it is listed? The fish can4t tell where they are
from! Be sure I am not afraid of snakes, gators (but have respect!), the
jungle or desert, infections or whatever comes across in an outdoor
adventure. But I am afraid of institutional power in over-reaction. I have
faced more Kalaschnikovs in Africa and M16 in Brazil than I liked to (sorry
for not having fotos of it ;-)) which makes me feel quite relaxed after it
but I don4t want to put my financial existence on the poker table of a
county judge in the wild west.

BTW: there where two german aquarist arrested in Brazil February 2003 and
released in July resp. September and were fined 10.000+ Euro for collecting
fish illegally. This is OK as everybody knows you need a license to do so
and there were warnings by examples (e.g. dutch collectors, the second
president of the german aquarist club etc.) which gave time and reason to
know about.

Finally: I can4t grasp the way this case was handled.

And I accept your offer, Moon. When collecting together YOU will get the
possible fines!;-)

At the weekend I will see if my darters are ready to spawn and see what I
can do to have them done their natural job.

Steffen

> Von: Moontanman_at_aol.com
> Antworten an: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Datum: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:55:10 EST
> An: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
> Betreff: Re: NANFA-- Fw: The Minnesota Abuses
>
> In a message dated 3/9/04 8:51:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> steffen_at_hellner.biz writes:
>
>> Great! How many years in chains will I get as
>> a non-resident if collecting in the USA and accidentally violating any
> minor
>> regulation, 10 yeras, 25 years, lifetime?
>
> Don't worry, I wouldn't let that happen to you, ;-) Steffen we hear all
> those stories about other countries too. Mostly they are just urban
legends.
> Most
> of the time the law works quite well over here but it is slowly eroding
away.
> I see the law doing things now routinely that would have caused a city wide
> uproar 35 years ago. but we asked for it so those awful drugs couldn't jump
> into
> us and kill us all. We have so many wars on our own people here I wonder
how
> we got the time to go to Iraq.
>
> Moon
-
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/ For more information about NANFA, visit our web page, http://www.nanfa.org