RE: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.

Nick Zarlinga (njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com)
Wed, 28 Jan 2004 07:21:21 -0500

You might have to hit him with a combination of drugs. Metrinidazole works
on protozoans and obviously your dog's dewormer is for worms- a broad
subject in itself. It depends on what type of wormer you have for your dog,
then of course what kind of worms your fish might have. There are round
worms, whip worms, tape worms, etc. Each tend to be sensitive to a
different drug. The worms don't seem to want to make it easy for us. Look
on the ingredients, if it is Ivermectin or Panacure (fenendezol), they are
more broad spectrum. Caution with fendbendezol since it is very tricky.
Praziquantel is a drug that is being used more and more these days for
flukes and cestodes in fish. Then of course you have dosages. If you want
to tinker, you can put a little crushed tablet in the tank, wave the majic
wand and dance around the tank two or three times and hope for the best.
(Just make sure you don't dance mroe than three times because that is the
snow dance and the reason why we are in this white mess in the first place
=) It depends on how much effort you want to put into this fish.

Nick Zarlinga
Aquarium Biologist
Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
216.661.6500 ext 4485

><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> On Behalf
><)> Of Todd Crail
><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 6:15 PM
><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> Subject: Re: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)>
><)>
><)> Thanks for all the responses folks. I think I'm
><)> going to do a quarantine
><)> with salt and feed in the dewormer. I only
><)> suggested the metronidiazole
><)> because I knew it worked with _some_ gut
><)> parasites. Maybe people who've
><)> worked with a lot of wild acquisitions like the
><)> zoo folks have a better
><)> suggestion? Any suggestions? A tiny bit off the
><)> dog stuff?
><)>
><)> While I am intrigued by the dietary
><)> considerations, I don't think this is an
><)> issue. He's getting plenty of carbonate and
><)> chitin from krill and mysis if
><)> that's what he's after... Also gets "vitamined to
><)> death spirulina" and a
><)> "vitamined to death veggie flake" so that should
><)> take care of the greens and
><)> stuff (the addatives on the HBH and Sera products
><)> read like paragraphs from
><)> some strange Chemist ;). Between all that protein
><)> available and then the
><)> specifically preformed enzymes etc, diet really
><)> shouldn't be an issue.
><)>
><)> There is also a reproducing population of a small
><)> snail that came in on some
><)> of the rubble in the system (actually both of the
><)> native systems that I
><)> introduced this rubble to) and I'm pretty sure
><)> they're getting regular
><)> swipes at them. I often see them hunting and then
><)> attacking, and the
><)> ensuing cloud of something pumping out of their
><)> gills when they're chewing
><)> (besides sand). Have never had the chance to
><)> catch what it is they're
><)> striking. It's too small or blends in too well.
><)>
><)> So I'm not disagreeing that this should be a
><)> consideration. I guess I'm
><)> just saying I'm pretty darn sure I have all those
><)> bases covered. Maybe I
><)> don't?
><)>
><)> This has been an issue with him since his
><)> collection in late September... I
><)> noticed it early on after he emerged from
><)> acclimatization that he wasn't the
><)> most robust fish, but since I'd given him the
><)> trouble of coming home, I
><)> figured I'd see if I couldn't at least try and
><)> help him out instead of
><)> giving up right away. Good food and good water
><)> params don't seem to be
><)> doing the trick. So, it was time to move to plan
><)> B or plan CO2 ;)
><)>
><)> Thanks again
><)> Todd
><)>
><)> ----- Original Message -----
><)> From: "Nick Zarlinga" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
><)> To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
><)> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:37 AM
><)> Subject: RE: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)>
><)>
><)> > I'd go the quarantine route with some kind of
><)> medicated food if it is
><)> > eating. You can make a gel diet and add some
><)> kind of wormer in it.
><)> >
><)> > Nick Zarlinga
><)> > Aquarium Biologist
><)> > Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
><)> > 216.661.6500 ext 4485
><)> >
><)> >
><)> > ><)> -----Original Message-----
><)> > ><)> From: owner-nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > ><)> On Behalf
><)> > ><)> Of Todd Crail
><)> > ><)> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:45 PM
><)> > ><)> To: nanfa_at_aquaria.net
><)> > ><)> Subject: NANFA-- Wasting o-spot.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Greetings...
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I've got an orangespot sunfish that
><)> is in the
><)> > ><)> worst way. I don't know what
><)> > ><)> the deal is... He's always chowed
><)> down since I've
><)> > ><)> had him, but dorsally, he
><)> > ><)> looks like an emaciated saltwater
><)> Tang, he has
><)> > ><)> flare ups of ich and fungus,
><)> > ><)> his eyes bulge sorta exopthalamusy
><)> (is that a
><)> > ><)> word? :) now and then, with
><)> > ><)> minimal opacity.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> He's just a mess.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I'd usually say it was system
><)> stress and try and
><)> > ><)> troubleshoot it and correct
><)> > ><)> it... But there ain't nobody else
><)> in there with a
><)> > ><)> single problem. Among
><)> > ><)> those enlisted are redside dace,
><)> blacknose dace,
><)> > ><)> blackstripe topminnows,
><)> > ><)> tadpole madtoms etc that would buy
><)> the farm on
><)> > ><)> whim and seem to be very
><)> > ><)> succeptable to ectoparasitic
><)> "blooms" when system
><)> > ><)> stress is present. So
><)> > ><)> I'm pretty convinced it's just him.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> This time he's flared up with the external
><)> > ><)> parasties two days _after_ the
><)> > ><)> waterchange. I don't know if he
><)> prefered whatever
><)> > ><)> the nitrates were at
><)> > ><)> before the waterchange, but they're
><)> undetectable
><)> > ><)> now. I wouldn't be
><)> > ><)> suprised if I went down and saw him
><)> floating on
><)> > ><)> any given day... But he's
><)> > ><)> looked this bad before and somehow
><)> pulled back out
><)> > ><)> of it. Never gained any
><)> > ><)> weight back tho. Just gone through
><)> this ebb and
><)> > ><)> tide of "looks like crap"
><)> > ><)> to "looks hopeful".
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Put 'em down and cut 'em open and
><)> take a looky?
><)> > ><)> Put him in a quarantine and
><)> > ><)> metronidazole the crap out of him?
><)> Hey that was
><)> > ><)> kinda punny... ;)
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I'm getting nervy about intestinal
><)> parasites,
><)> > ><)> though I've seen no evidence
><)> > ><)> of them. No bloating or anal irritation, no
><)> > ><)> discharge or clear "feces".
><)> > ><)> But his wasting and
><)> imunosuppression seem to be right on.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I didn't want to waste him if there
><)> were other
><)> > ><)> options. Or if that was the
><)> > ><)> best option, I guess get some
><)> suggestions to do it.
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> I hate nuking fish I've had for awhile :(
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> Todd
><)> > ><)>
><)> > ><)> It's never too late to have a happy
><)> childhood.
><)> > ><)> http://www.farmertodd.com
><)> > ><)> ---------------------------
><)> > ><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments
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><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes
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><)> > ><)> American Native Fishes Association
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><)> > / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
><)> American Native Fishes
><)> > / Association"
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><)> American Native Fishes
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><)> ---------------------------
><)> /"Unless stated otherwise, comments made on this
><)> list do not necessarily
><)> / reflect the beliefs or goals of the North
><)> American Native Fishes
><)> / Association"
><)> / This is the discussion list of the North
><)> American Native Fishes Association
><)> / nanfa_at_aquaria.net. To subscribe, unsubscribe, or
><)> get help, send the word
><)> / subscribe, unsubscribe, or help in the body (not
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