RE: NANFA-L-- Michigan Chapter

jlw-in-dune.net
Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:30:59 -0700

Don't forget also, that predators develop defenses against their prey's
defenses. In other words, they can evolve to be list effected by venom, or its
method of injection. Certainly individuals-in-any given time are going to be
more effected than others -- we can see this even in human beings. I love hot
peppers, and make a plate of chili that makes my S. O. want to leave the house
(we'll pretend it's the CHILI that does that). Yet, I have a friend who thinks
its "Not bad, a little weak."

Fish are the same way -- one bass grabs a madtom and it's like a platefull of
hot peppers. Another grabs one, thinks, "SPICY!" and heads off in search of
another. :)

JW.

Quoting Christopher Gutmann <cgutmann-in-dupageforest.com>:

> It is indeed a defensive mechanism in madtoms. Studies have demonstrated
> that the venom causes temporary paralysis in some predatory fishes. In order
> for the venom to be released, the integument around the spines needs to be
> broken. In other words, an individual needs to suffer physical damage (i.e.,
> be attacked) for the venom to be released. In pilot studies that I conducted
> years ago, I observed madtoms frequently surviving attacks. As soon as the
> predators were envenomated, they quickly spit out the madtom. Furthermore,
> the predators in the study refrained from subsequent attacks on madtoms
> during the trials. This, of course, may not be a universal response with all
> predators, but it illustrates that madtoms can survive attacks from some
> predators. Could the venom serve other purposes? Most certainly. However,
> the delivery mechanism and the nature of the venom imply that it likely
> evolved as an antipredatory response.
>
> Chris Gutmann
> Des Plaines River drainage
> Oak Brook, Illinois
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org [owner-nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org]On Behalf Of
> Bob Muller
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:21 PM
> To: nanfa-l-in-nanfa.org
> Subject: NANFA-L-- Michigan Chapter
>
>
>
>
> Last week I gave a talk on native fishes to the Clinton Valley chapter of
> Trout Unlimited. It was well received with lots of questions and interest in
> the other fish in their trout streams. One question I have never gotten
> before. In talking about the madtoms venom I was asked what for. I would
> guess it helps them from being eaten any other ideas.
>
>
>
> Bob Muller
>
> Red Run (the ghost river of Royal Oak)
>
> a tributary of the Clinton River, Michigan
>
>
>
>
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