Re: NANFA-- That whole sandbed thing.

njz (njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com)
Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:05:20 -0500

Ok, now we can have some fun! When referring to nutrient poor reefs, the
inferred implication is that the *water* is nutrient poor, or at least it
should be. As with the rainforest, all of the nutrients are locked up in
the incredible diversity of organisms which are found in the ecosystem,
creating the well referred to "web" of life. Nothing gets wasted, that is
liberated in the environment (or water) in this case for very long. It
takes no time for something, plant, animal, bacteria, (you name the rest, I
lost track of the latest thinking) to "suck" up the nutrients. So, the
reefs are nutrient poor, like rainforest soil, because most of the nutrients
are locked up in living tissue-of some sort. Same as what you said, Todd,
but to me ebb and flow indicates that it gets washed out to deep see,
instead of being locked up in living tissue. I think that we are saying the
same thing. To bring it home, the more *complex* we make our systems (more
plants, fish, inverts, inverts, inverts, etc.), the more stable they
*should* be, however the harder they crash when they do. As we all know, we
are one accident away from a disaster. Ok, I'm done with the mister fixzit
attitude. We just had that discussion on another list. I haven't said
anything that we don't know already.

Nick Zarlinga

"If we ignore nature.....maybe it'll go away."

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Crail" <farmertodd_at_buckeye-express.com>
To: <nanfa_at_aquaria.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: NANFA-- That whole sandbed thing.

> Ah yes, now the topic of conversion :)
>
> Let's be very careful when discussing how nutrient poor reefs are. Reefs
> are "nutrient poor" *only* because the nutrients are unobservable to
humans
> due to such a fantastic density and volume of mouths/primary producers.
> That is to say, the nutrients are utilized *as fast* as a tide can pull it
> in from the deep sea (marine snows) and out of the lagoonal and mangrove
> type habitats. If you were to, uh, dynamite a reef, you'd quickly see how
> "nutrient poor" that water really is in the ensuing massive algal
(suspended
> and fiberous) bloom that occurs after such destruction. ;)
>
> The reefs have evolved to be balanced on this ebb and flow of
> nutrients/nutrition in and out daily... The balance only gets hosed up
when
> some _at_#$%^ is clear cutting a stable rainforest up stream to grow his kava
> crop way up a mountain that isn't going to grow any way, or a city decides
> the best thing to do about seasonal flooding is to pave the riverbeds, and
a
> nutrient value is at surplus... Which favors unfavorable algae growth, as
> algae are the most quick to respond to the new current situation.
>
> And so yes, I agree, and I feel that planted tanks are the same, in that
> there is a requirement for low observable nutrients, but exists also a
state
> of nirvana known as "rapid conversion". A 5lb bag of plants for the
garbage
> a month is one such example. Big coral heads that came from fragments
only
> months earlier are another :)
>
> And, of course, I would have been busy boasting about how wonderful my new
> systems were this week and not remembering to do the mid-week plant
> fertilizer (and it's an ixnay on the phosphorus, which I agree, is the
thing
> I don't like about the soils :) addition and now I have the start of a
light
> algal bloom because I disabled my "converters" from doing their thing by
> limiting thier physiology... And that opportunistic algae jumped right on
> it. But then again... I will have the pleasure of watching the glass
clear
> on it's own now that I have made the addition and a new committment to
> making sure I hit it mid week. :)
>
> Todd
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "njz" <njz_at_clevelandmetroparks.com>
>
> I believe that plant systems
> > are like reef systems, you want relatively nutrient poor water with only
> the
> > elements needed for the plants to grow. Too many nutrients can cause
> other
> > undesirable situations.

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